loach talk!

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NancyD
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loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Wed May 08, 2019 9:47 pm

On Fri. I went to an SFAS (San Francisco Aquarium Society) talk given by our former loaches.com board member, Mad Duff (Mark Duffill). It was very interesting & inspiring. He's bred 47 species of loaches!!...WOW!! I've bred 1 & am very proud of that!!

It's really too bad whatever "bad feelings" happened years ago are preventing him from sharing his breeding successes here on loaches.com. I've joined his facebook group "loachfanatics" & hope to learn more from him.

Why is he kept from sharing his loach breeding info here? THIS should be what our board should be about!! Our site is dying a slow death, is this really what we want?!? I don't...
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Bas Pels
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Re: loach talk!

Post by Bas Pels » Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 am

Almost all forums have people leving them for their personal reasons.

Reasons other people normally never know about - and if they know about the reason, they sometimes don't even understand the problem.

I think this man has his reasons notto come here, and we cannot do anything else then accept that. Still it is a pity.

NancyD
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Location: SF bay area,US

Re: loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Thu May 09, 2019 10:30 pm

Bas, he was "kicked off" our board by people who are no longer members (active ones anyway)...but still he is banned 5+ years later! I don't understand the reasoning for this. AFAIR he did nothing to with any "wrong" posts in any way...except maybe disagreeing with a couple of the "old guard" on a very few issues...& more behind the boards than on them.

I know small sites like LOL have a different dynamic than some larger boards. But I also know at least 1 "troll" was allowed back after being banned, until he continued his bad behavior. Mark was not like that in any way I ever saw. But still banned? It's just wrong! & that's why I question the long term life of Loaches.com, I'm very sad about it.
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redshark1
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Re: loach talk!

Post by redshark1 » Sat May 11, 2019 9:24 am

So what did you learn from his talk, please, anything interesting?
6 x Clown Loaches all twenty-five years of age on 01.01.19, largest 11.5", 2f4m, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr = 110 US gal.

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Sat May 11, 2019 10:04 pm

redshark, he's bred so many species of loaches! His "usual way" is to have 2 sizes of fine sand & coarser sand or fine gravel. Then a layer of various size rocks topped with wood & plants. He uses mostly internal filters (not too common in the US). These are aimed sort of diagonally across the tank surface to wash any eggs into the rocks, plants, coarser substrate, away from any predation by parents or other fish. This also helps some food to reach the area too.

The "old school" breeding technique of putting a ripe female & healthy male in a bare tank with marbles, letting them spawn & removing the adults has only worked once that he knew. I believe it was "mick the fish" that did it that way (also a former (?) LOL member & very experienced fish breeder).

Mark also tries to pair dither fish from the areas the mostly wild caught loaches are from; barbs & rasboras are often his choice, but NOT tetras or CA or SA livebearers. He offers an amazing variety of foods. Live, flake, pellets, a vast array, lol, & I thought my fish were spoiled!

1 other interesting thing he said was that "tiger" loaches & other "aggressive" loaches (skunks etc) aren't so much aggro as curious & this is where appropriate dithers come in to play too.

Oh & sids prefer deeper tanks of 2ft or more.

Really in a slightly more than hour long talk, I learned a lot! He often speaks in the UK. If you get the chance you should go. He was very approachable, helpful, & charming too.
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redshark1
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Re: loach talk!

Post by redshark1 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:57 am

That is interesting, many thanks!
6 x Clown Loaches all twenty-five years of age on 01.01.19, largest 11.5", 2f4m, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr = 110 US gal.

Bas Pels
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Re: loach talk!

Post by Bas Pels » Sun May 12, 2019 5:21 am

Trying to understand his suggestions, I have agrou0p of 10 Petruichthys brevis, where the males at times are very, bvery much interested in ther females, and other times hardly.

I see, however, never any eggs - but the tank is not decorated to have egs flush away from the fishes - and there is a CA lifebearer in the tank too. This lifebearer is already on the to do list.

NancyD
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Sun May 12, 2019 11:27 pm

Bas Pels, it may be my lack of understanding & not your's, leading to misunderstandings. I'm sorry for that if the they way I came across.

What do you need clarification on? Rock placement?

I wish you good luck on your petruichthys brevis, it sounds like you're getting close!
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Bas Pels
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Re: loach talk!

Post by Bas Pels » Mon May 13, 2019 2:28 am

Not at all, it was more thinking aloud.

Starting from the idea of needing the eggs to flush to safety, I realized this might help with this group.

The problem will be how to get the decoration adapted to this - as the pump is fixated in the tank.

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ch.koenig
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Location: Switzerland

Re: loach talk!

Post by ch.koenig » Mon May 13, 2019 5:12 am

Hi all
Just realised you are talking about P. brevis. They are easy to breed and really very "busy" at it once started. There must be some pics of youngsters on seriouslyfish.com I posted years ago. I keep still half a dozen of the youngsters in my 500 lt tank, as I hadn't the intention to go on with breeding.
Two things seem to be essential: first a large part of heavily "flat" planted aerea (Cryptos e.g.) on 8-15 mm gravel/wood should give sight-cover and second an across placed barrage in V-shape, just adjoining the gravel section. Without protection possibility in the the gravel the eggs are eaten, because usually the whole group is involved into the spawning.
As I don't like the fixed V-system of glass I take plexiglass, cut it at size of wide/plus 1-5 cm. This way it is bent when introduced into the tank. If you need a space between bottom-glass and plexiglass to get the current that "sucks" in eggs and fry you better don't cut the corners. The bond seam will give the space. With a internal filter you just cut the hole for the outflow into the plexiglass. Depending on the species I cut a median part of some centimeters lower down or at top. Material thickness: 2-4 mm
The reason I get so long-winded: you can build a system with protected aerea in a working tank.
Cheers Charles

Basil
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Re: loach talk!

Post by Basil » Mon May 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Hmm, do you remember why he said sids prefer a 24” deep? My 40 b is not quite that and actually neither is my 75 g.

NancyD
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Location: SF bay area,US

Re: loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Basil, yes, I do remember because, like you, my deepest sid tank was a 20 inch deep 75g. I don't think Mark was saying breeding can't be done in another tank size, but he did say they seemed to enjoy a 24-36 inch deep tank. As I recall he said sids liked going all over his deeper tank(s).

I've kept sids in a 20g long, & a 75g, & maybe a 55g too over the years. I've had roe filled females but no breeding "action" I saw. It maybe that males mature more slowly...or because they're usually hormone-bred, they might not know quite what to do on their own, I don't know. It does seem like a 12inch deep tank didn't allow for enough "loachy dancing" room & any breeding behavior. I did have a fair number of plants & wood, but maybe not enough rockwork to protect any eggs & fry there might have been.

I'm just trying to paraphrase Mark's talk on loaches & breeding them in general. Please don't take my memories of the meeting as "gospel", I'm sure there are other methods that may work. But I am excited that I might, just maybe, breed another loach species!
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Basil
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Re: loach talk!

Post by Basil » Tue May 14, 2019 12:22 am

Ah ok! I missed that he was mainly talking about breeding. :D
Then I won’t worry that my sids may be unhappy in the 16” deep tank!
Although it would be cool to breed them.

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redshark1
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Re: loach talk!

Post by redshark1 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:16 pm

6 x Clown Loaches all twenty-five years of age on 01.01.19, largest 11.5", 2f4m, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr = 110 US gal.

NancyD
Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: loach talk!

Post by NancyD » Wed May 29, 2019 12:21 am

Yes, redshark, I think it's the same (or almost) as loachfanatics. L.assn. may be the older name & was more Brit-centric but I know you're in the UK. I think they may be merged or something, they seemed the same when I looked. I'm not very facebook aware...sorry. Mark & I talked about it but I don't recall what he said. I was on loach overload :D that meeting.
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