clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

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anewbie
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clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by anewbie » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:54 pm

I currently have a 120 with 6 clown loaches, 10 zebra loaches, 2 yoyo (long story i know i need more), 7 angelfishes and 5 pleco (l204 and bn). The tank has been setup for 30 months. I realize that it is a bit over crowded and i do suitable water changes to keep the nitrate controlled. In a bit under a year I will be upgrading to a 450.

I've been given a bit of grief elsewhere that it is not a good idea to mix clown loaches, yoyo loaches and angelfishes. The comments have been that clowns are too territorial and their night activity is bad for the angels.

I am very aware of the long thread on yoyo and clown with some saying nay and some saying yay. My question is for feed back or pointer to literature that can indicate if this configuration will work in the 450 or if I need to sep. things. My stocking for the 450 would include the current fisehs plus 4 more angels 4 more yoyo 5 more zebra and some large body tetra. Also I might add 2 or 3 pleco (like blue phantom or gold nugget).

I've not observed any real issue other than some of the yoyo i purchased turned out to be gold zebra and they jumped out of the tank. I would think at this point the zebra and yoyo are fully mature - of course the clowns are going to be kids for a long time. I never intended to have 7 angles but i had 2 and they bred and i kept a few of the frys to see how they would mature (form factor et all). Currently my water is gh 7 kh 3 tds 130 ph 7.0 but in the 450 i will ahve ro water and will lower it to something like gh 3 kh 1 tds 70 at least those are my plans but feed-back will help me perhaps change them.
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Also on the clown loaches my largest after 30 months (at purchase all were sub 2 inches) is over 6 inches long. At what point will they slow down in growth or are these guys going to hit 10 inches by the time they are 10 ?

MultipleTankSyndrome
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:23 pm

I would think the extra space in the 1704 liter tank could help mitigate the angelfish being bothered by the loaches. And with that out of the way, I know of nothing in particular preventing them getting along.

With regards to yoyos and clowns, although I don't have enough experience with yoyos to tell you firsthand, adequately sized groups of 6+ yoyos is key to their compatibility with other species. Since you will be having that many, the 2 species will likely get on well, and the large tank helps too.

My understanding is that growth can vary tremendously from loach to loach even within the same tank. So as far as I'm aware, only time can tell the growth rate of your loaches.

I hope all this answers your questions. Good luck with your future tank!
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

NancyD
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by NancyD » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:26 pm

I haven't kept yoyos but suspect they might bother the angel long fins more than clowns or striatas. Because most loaches are crepuscular (dawn & dusk active) they may bother the angels. I had smallish (3-4 inch?) clowns with angels for a short time. The angels would thrash around when the loaches zoomed around. I was afraid the angels would hurt themselves jumping & hitting the lid so I separated them.

With so many bottom fish, loaches & plecos, you'll need a LOT of caves even in a very large tank. Each species will need at least 1 or several. If plecos are important to you, you might be better off rehoming the yoyos instead of adding more. I'm not sure if those diffent plecos will play nice all together, there's quite a size & maybe behavior/food/temp difference. I haven't kept most of the 1s you'd like. Check out planetcatfish for plecos info.

Always stock to adult size fish, it's hard when we get them as babies.
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redshark1
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by redshark1 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:19 am

I keep Clown Loaches with some dither fish (Harlequin Rasbora Trigonostigma heteromorpha are the current ones and they are doing very well, the best so far).
Last edited by redshark1 on Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

anewbie
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by anewbie » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:02 am

Ok. Thanks for the feedback. I think i'll drop getting more yoyo and the two i have I'll figure out waht to do with them. In the 120 I've not observed any issues with the clown and angels and the angels can raise free swimming frys without too much issue (they have more problems with other angels snatching eggs and frys than clown loaches). However my oldest clown so far is only 3 and only 6 inches large. I was mostly concern that something might change as the clown loach age; and if it does please let me know. I've been raising frys with the clown loach so that might help with the angels mostly ignoring them at night as long as the clown loach behavior stay consistent.

I'll rethink the pleco. The L204 are pretty passive and shy (currently i only have l204 and bn in the 120); so maybe i'll reconsider adding anything beyond L204 and the current pair of lemon bn to the 450.
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So no more pleco; drop yoyo; add more caves (which I will - mostly in the form of large driftwood they can dig under)

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redshark1
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by redshark1 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:37 am

Seen some problems reported where Clown Loaches ate the Angelfish fins.
Last edited by redshark1 on Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

MultipleTankSyndrome
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:10 am

redshark1 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:19 am
So that is my recommendation - I would not want to compromise my Clown Loaches by forcing them to co-habit with other species.
May I ask how you arrived to the conclusion that cohabiting with other species necessarily compromises clown loaches? Certainly, there are species unsuitable for them to cohabit with which would obviously compromise them (that is to say species that are too aggressive, do not share the same habitat preference, need different water chemistry, may eat the loaches, and so forth).
But cohabiting with other species is precisely what clown loaches (as well as many, many other species) do in nature. Those species in question obviously share water chemistry and habitat needs, and when they do not eat or bully the loaches as well as vice versa, I see nothing about cohabiting with them that would compromise clown loaches. I would also extend that statement to species with compatible water chemistry, habitats, temperaments, and so forth that are found in other areas (such as a number of Amazonian species).

Now of course, if you don't wish to keep your clown loaches with other species, that is a perfectly fine thing to do and I don't wish to intervene with it or give you trouble for it. I just wanted to know about why you said what you did.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

Bas Pels
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:01 am

While I agree with you that all fishes share their habitat with others, and in most cases they will not mind if the other fish is not one from their natural habitat, the combination clown loaches with angelfish is not one I would recommend.

In water chemistry, the differences are not the problem. Howeve,r I think the loaches would prefer more currentthan the angels do. And I think the loaches will be to boisterous is, I think, the right word, for the angels.

Recently I saw a group of Rasbora borapetensis die from stress, and their only tankmates are Schistura bachmaensis. I think thhey are to active during feeding, and perhaps during the night, for the Rasboras.

Now we are mostly talking about the loaches on this forum, but other fis, regardles of them being angels o Rasboras, need to be kept good as well - and therefore I would hate to see the same happening with the angels.

MultipleTankSyndrome
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:47 pm

I was not referring to the angelfish when I made that statement, perhaps I should have specified so. Because of the things you mention as well as what redshark1 said (which encompass the loaches bullying/harassing the angelfish, as well as possible habitat differences in the criteria I mentioned), I agree that angelfish and clown loaches are not really compatible.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

NancyD
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by NancyD » Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:50 pm

"Next time" I keep clowns, I would go with larger "dither fish" that enjoy the same tank conditions (higher temp, faster flow). Medium sized barbs or larger rainbowfish, maybe bigger rasboras. But also keep in mind clowns can live a long time (looking at you redshark! :D ) So, you could have dithers that live say, 10+ years & then opt for larger schooling/shoalers eventually...but you might need to grow them up a while in a separate tank. It will depend on species & what size you're able to get at that time. As much as we'd love to buy any fish at any time, it can be difficult & always changing
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redshark1
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by redshark1 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:16 am

Some issues I wasn't happy with.
Last edited by redshark1 on Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
6 x Clown Loaches all 30 years of age on 01.01.2024, largest 11.5", 2 large females, 4 smaller males, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr/90 uk gal/110 US gal. approx.

MultipleTankSyndrome
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:42 am

Doesn't that just mean those species (and the other examples you have in mind) may not be the best clown loach tankmates*? There are also a considerable amount of cases where clown loaches in a tank with other species did not cause any issues to each other. Such as:

Myself: My clown loaches share a tank with pictus catfish+black kuhli loaches without any issues so far, and nor were there any when the tank as shared with a rescue Siamese fighting fish (that was later killed by a heater malfunction unfortunately).

Martin Thoene: His clown loaches have shared tanks with yoyo loaches, zebra loaches, golden zebra loaches, Burmese loaches, a black ghost knife, tiger barbs, bronze corys, and danios with no compatibility issues. (edit: and a red tail shark as well!)

Emma Turner: Her clown loaches did not have any problem with filament barbs (even fry) or broken-line tetras.

Bookpage: In addition to some previously mentioned species, they mixed theirs with Odessa barbs, roseline sharks, L144 plecos, dwarf chain loaches, and Sumo loaches.

*It may be important to bear in mind that every fish is different, just like people. Therefore, while the listed mixes may not work for some fishkeepers, they have worked for others, and that may very well apply regarding most of the species you mixed (minus the Jack Dempsey due to different water conditions posing a problem).
As you say, one should be careful of assuming the aquarium is just like the wild, so some trial and error may be required. And so, in the same manner as a mix working for someone else not working for you, one of the listed mixes not working for you may work very well for someone else (as with Martin Thoene and the red tail shark for instance, or only keeping 1 bristlenose gender).

Ultimately, I feel it is better to state that some potential tankmates for clown loaches may not be compatible due to aquariums not being as the wild is and every individual fish being different, rather than stating other species compromise clown loaches.
Last edited by MultipleTankSyndrome on Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

Bas Pels
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by Bas Pels » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:30 pm

@ Ancisturs, while I would have excpected the clowns to eat their fry, it is always a good idea to keep only males. Or, in a tank with only 1, a female.

They do breed like rabbits, and while it is easy to recognize a male, a 'female'can turn out to be a male - hence the idea of keeping 6 females is not a good one

For the rest - I like keeping them

NancyD
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by NancyD » Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:52 pm

Bas Pels, I agree that an ancistrus or several of the same sex may be fine with clowns, I've done it for a while & with other small plecos. But, as you said, fry may not. & at what point do the plecos spines threaten any loach "snacks"? I don't really mind some fry getting eaten (oops, sorry to you save every fish people) but I don't want my loaches choking on them.

Every tank can be different. You can likely find online accounts of any combination of fish that "work" together (however long or short time). But if you want long term success, as we should all hope for, some combos are better than others. It will matter your size tank, size of clowns, water flow, filtration, water changes, etc. Too many variables to say what will be OK in every situation. It helps to have a back-up plan (extra tanks) for when things don't go quite as well as we'd hoped for.
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Bas Pels
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Re: clown loach compatibility with angelfish, zebra loaches, yoyo and pleco

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:37 am

On a Dutch forum, on cichlids, I always warn people not to hope to be lucvky with a combination, but to go for certain. And as you stated, many combinations work, for a while.

Personally I think a combination works, if it works for a year. Or more.

@ Ancistrus, I could not tell you when the soft babies will turn too hard to eat comfortably. I never tried that, one way or another. I was, however, not in the least offended by your question.

I was very happy. I was 10, with my first litter of guppies. The second I fed to a sick Trigogaster leeri...

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