Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

The forum for the very best information on loaches of all types. Come learn from our membership's vast experience!

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

Bas Pels
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:54 pm

It certainly matters a lot of energy. I was less lucky with mine - P angularis

Enjoy

NancyD
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by NancyD » Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:52 pm

I often think the "suggested" temp range of fish is not necessarily the optimal for a given species. Too high a temp & fish can be more active but may live shorter lives. Too low & they may be less active, eat less but live slightly longer lives. Many are just a "guesstimate" based on where most of a species are from...at some point in time.

In nature there can be a wide range of temps both throughout the day & the year...so what is ideal? What may trigger spawning? It's easy to "assume" certain parameters are "right" but that maybe only some aspects of what our fish may like. So many things can play a part; temp is 1, so are other water parameters, day length, etc. & of course foods too.

As I've said many times, there is no 1 right answer. Sometimes a little change can make a big difference...at least on your energy bill, lol. I'm glad your loaches are doing well!
Image

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:59 pm

Thanks very much! :D
Couldn't agree more that there is no single right answer, and you're right to at least an extent that the recommended temperature for (x) fish isn't necessarily the right one. For example, 27-28 Celsius for roseline sharks - this is oft-recommended as an upper bound but not something I would advise, going off oxygen content.

Concerning activity, appetite and lifepsan being dependent on temperature, something I find interesting is that despite cooler water having less dissolved oxygen than warmer water, the slower fish metabolism in cooler water means they need less oxygen, whereas the converse is true in warm water - more is needed despite less being available.

So in keeping the temperature on the cool side, you can get 'surplus' dissolved oxygen, which is always better to have than not enough. It also keeps some nasty bacterial infections like columnaris/duck lips down, that are epidemic in warmer water (pic by Duane Stuerner).
Image

I'm thinking the Botia species planned for this tank will probably appreciate 21-22 Celsius too. Zebra and Burmese loaches both come from streams at altitude, which I'd expect to be in that range.
And of course, so will the Odessa barbs.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:30 pm

Some feeding, maintenance, and other updates.

New Life Spectrum Grow is proving to be a good pellet food for the kuhlis to get their share quickly. Its smaller 0.5mm size compared to the Krill Gran/Discus Gran that I would usually feed is letting them eat their fill easier (think of the time difference between swallowing chocolate chips and kisses).
Getting their fill quickly is useful when they're kept with larger, fast-eating roseline sharks and growout pictus catfish (and when the pictus catfish grow big enough to be moved to the archerfish tank, the zebra/Burmese loaches will fill their place of fast eating larger fish). They still do like to eat a few bites of the Krill/Discus Gran that is fed to the larger fish though.

Bloodworms, brine shrimp, and mysis shrimp are what's on hand at the moment for frozen food and are all big hits. Only caveat is that surprisingly the roselines will eat sinking bloodworms before floating and leave the floaters for a long time, so I have to remember to make a point to feed floaters first.

Maintenance is straightforward, the usual 50% water replacements and filter cleaning every Sunday+Tuesday+Thursday with the occasional Sicce Voyager degunking. Only surprise is how much detritus I end up rinsing out of the filter relative to the fish and their feeding - I would have expected, at best, 1/2-2/3 the amount of detritus.
It seems this is because the kuhlis and roselines poop a LOT more than I thought (whenever I watch them I always see a few pooping, and since I obviously can't watch them 100% of the time, all the pooping they do when I can't must be what's behind all the detritus). They are only given as much as they can eat in 30 seconds to a minute, twice a day, so it's not overfeeding. I would guess perhaps their new diet just makes them poop more than I thought, or their frequent nibbling of biofilm off the walls and decor is behind it.
Upsides are that it's always fun/satisfying to rinse out the sponges and see how much detritus there is, and every filter cleaning makes me grateful it's a cleaning-friendly Aquaclear hang on back instead of a cleaning-unfriendly pressurized canister filter like an FX6 that turns into a leaking NO3 factory. Plus, it also helps me appreciate how much biomedia I have in the tank simply by having sand, rocks, caves, fake plants, and a piece of wood - all that surface area is good for plenty of beneficial bacteria, so I can rinse out all the media without fear.

Otherwise, it looks like some of the black kuhli loaches are gravid. If they spawned I would expect few to no eggs or fry to survive (especially if it happened before the pictus catfish grow big enough to be moved), but I would LOVE if some did! :D
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:12 pm

I saw one of the black kuhlis laying eggs today! :shock:
They were not viable, so I suspect they were just dropped instead of spawned. Nonetheless I'd love to be proven wrong on both that and my assumption of any babies not surviving. :)

The scenario is definitely different from Richard Bias' breeding of black kuhlis though. This tank has considerably more flow than his, a much cooler temperature (21-22 Celsius compared to 26-27 Celsius), and much softer (125 mg/l hardness vs 308-376 mg/l hardness) water.
If I can successfully breed them, it will be a testament to their adaptability (which was already somewhat touched in that article concerning hardness).

One last thing, for a little while I've been seeking out some large, smooth gravel pieces to add a little variety to the pool filter sand substrate. I was planning for the end result to be like what Martin Thoene made in his tank with a sand/gravel mix: Image
I imagine the large, smooth gravel will be a great place to hide for baby kuhlis.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

NancyD
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: SF bay area,US

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by NancyD » Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:58 pm

Cool you saw eggs! I had p. curneovirgata females carry eggs all the time but never any spawning or egg releases. Just fat greenish tummies with no change in shape. Maybe it's all your water changes that triggered that?
Image

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Need some stocking advice for my second loach tank

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:15 pm

Could be. I imagine lots of water replacements stimulates the rainy season, which has equivalent phenomena of changing water levels.
Would be a good experiment to try for those with the resources.
473 liter - pictus catfish, smallscale archerfish, planned pumpkinseed sunfish
110 liter - green neon+cardinal tetras
473 liter - roseline sharks, striped kuhli+black kuhli+Burmese loaches, zebra/weather/neon kuhli loaches (planned)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 132 guests