Hello & getting started with loaches

[cycas]

Hello all
I'm thinking of getting some fish for what will really be the first time (OK, we had a tropical tank when I was a child with mollies, guppies & tetras, but that was in the 1980's and I'm sure it's all changed now.)

After many visits to public aquaria, one of my favourite fish is the kuhli loach, and I was thinking of getting a tank for a group of those.

I've read through most of the care info on the loaches.com site but I have some questions and would also like to hear of any resources you'd like to recommend to a beginner!

- are Kuhlis suitable for a beginner? Are they definitely going to stay small enough for a moderately sized domestic tank? I believe they live quite a long time and want to be sure I'm not getting something that I won't be able to look after long-term.

- can I keep them as a group of one species or should I have some other sort of fish with them?

- What sort of size of group is recommended? I saw that keeping them in groups is recommended, but is 4-5 a sensible sort of group, or could I increase my chances of actually being able to see my fish more often by keeping a group of say 10-12?

- is there another similar loach that might be more suitable? (I like long wiggly fish! )

- what sort of tank size should I be looking at anyway?

- are rectangular tanks best for loaches? I've seen ones with bow fronts and sort of octagonal ones: are there things I should know before I choose?

- I read that kuhli's aren't ideal for newly established tanks. Can I leave my tank with just plants in till it is 'established' and if so, how long is that? Or should I be planning to put something else in there first?

- I've seen mention of quarantine tanks. Does this mean I should be looking at buying two tanks and keeping one empty or just with plants?

- where is a good place to find out about filters? We used to have an under gravel one, but I gather this is no longer seen as necessarily the best approach.

- All my other pets are rescue animals. I am not sure if fish rescues even exist though, so is buying loaches from a pet shop the right thing to do?

- If so, can anyone recommend a decent fish / aquarium supplier in Devon or Cornwall (or is it possible to mail order fish? It seems unlikely! Presumably the tank and filters and so on could be ordered in though?)

Plus, any other info you'd like to suggest that someone considering keeping loaches for the first time should know!

Apologies if any of this is an FAQ - I did look for one but didn't find anything much aimed at the complete novice!

Victoria

[palaeodave]

Hi Victoria,

Definately avoid the octagonal tanks for loaches as the more important factor is the area on the bottom of the tank, not the height. I have a group of 6 kuhli's and they're out all the time. As long as you give them plenty of places to hide they'll feel comfortable and be out lots. I'm not sure on what sort of tank size you'd need for a group of ten. As far as I can see they don't get territorial and don't really need the kind of swimming space other botiine loaches need, but I'd wait for somebody elses opinion on that.

[shari2]

Hi cycas and welcome to LOL.

Dave is right, the 'footprint' of the tank is more important for loaches than having a deep tank, even for kuhlis. They'd like a sand substrate and lots of plants/hiding spots.

As for your questions:

- are Kuhlis suitable for a beginner? Are they definitely going to stay small enough for a moderately sized domestic tank?

They can be, if you do your homework, but they should not be the first fish added to the tank, and the tank should be cycled and mature before you add them. Read up on the nitrogen cycle and decide how you plan to cycle your tank. Some do 'fishless' cycling, others purchase a small group of hardy fish and cycle the tank with fish.
Yes, they are not large or bulky fish, but what do you mean by 'moderately sized?

I believe they live quite a long time and want to be sure I'm not getting something that I won't be able to look after long-term.

Sounds like your getting off on the right foot and plan to practice responsible husbandry of your fish.

- can I keep them as a group of one species or should I have some other sort of fish with them?

Yes, you can keep just kuhils, or if you cycle the tank with fish, try to choose some hardy schooling fish that appeal to you, and they will give you some upper water level activity to enjoy.

- What sort of size of group is recommended? I saw that keeping them in groups is recommended, but is 4-5 a sensible sort of group, or could I increase my chances of actually being able to see my fish more often by keeping a group of say 10-12?

4 or 5 is a good minimum group, with kuhli's, the more the merrier. With any tank however, especially new ones, you should only add a few at a time.

- is there another similar loach that might be more suitable? (I like long wiggly fish!)

If you like long and wiggly look at any of the Pangio species in the Alphabetic Species Index.

- what sort of tank size should I be looking at anyway?

I'd say at least 20gallons (how many litres is that? )

- I read that kuhli's aren't ideal for newly established tanks. Can I leave my tank with just plants in till it is 'established' and if so, how long is that? Or should I be planning to put something else in there first?

Read about the Nitrogen Cycle...

- I've seen mention of quarantine tanks. Does this mean I should be looking at buying two tanks and keeping one empty or just with plants?

Once you have initially set up your tank, any time you add new fish, they should be quarantined in a separate tank for about a month (some would say less, others more) to make sure that they won't be bringing any nasties into your main community tank. If any health issues that require treatment arise during that period you can treat the affected fish without contaminating your main tank. q-tanks are usually small (10g) and cost less to medicate, take less time to maintain and are easy to observe. Many people keep theirs bare, as in no substrate and minimal decor to make it easier to observe, clean and catch the fish for return to the main tank. Others go the full bore planted tank route. Some are in-between. It's up to you.

- where is a good place to find out about filters? We used to have an under gravel one, but I gather this is no longer seen as necessarily the best approach.

No, undergravel filters are not the best choice anymore, especially not for burrowing species, like kuhli's. Hang on the back filters (HOB filters) like aquaclears, or others work well for smaller tanks, canister filters, wet dry setups all have their uses and serve the purpose. Start looking around at mail order places, compare prices, etc. If you're anywhere near Maidenhead Aquatics run by Emma you should definitely stop in there, especially for loaches!

- ... is buying loaches from a pet shop the right thing to do?

Depends on the shop, frankly.

- If so, can anyone recommend a decent fish / aquarium supplier in Devon or Cornwall (or is it possible to mail order fish? It seems unlikely! Presumably the tank and filters and so on could be ordered in though?)

Yes, you can sometimes get better deals on equipment and supplies online. The best shop around is Emma's.

There's tons of stuff to know, fishkeeping is a continual search for information. Not gonna cover everything here, that's for sure!

hope this helps,
and welcome again Victoria.

[cycas]

Thanks for the replies.

I was vaguely looking at 75 to 200 litre tanks (roughly 20 -50 US gallons, I think) but with very little idea as to whether that would be about right, generous or far too small!

I have read up on cycling, but I wasn't sure if the 'not in a new tank' thing applied only to that, or if there was something else I didn't understand!

So, a group of say 5 kuhlis should (assuming no unplanned for disasters) cope OK in an unoccupied 75litre+ tank, assuming it is fully cycled (using fishless cycling) first, and well populated with plants and suitable substrate?

If I did plan to get a few hardy fish before adding the loaches, are there any that would be particularly suitable to live with them?

*edit* Ooops, forgot to say that although Emma's looks amazing, it's about a 6 hour drive away, so if I can find somewhere more local I think that would be preferable!