R.O. and water changes

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Keith Wolcott
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Location: Charleston, Illinois USA

Post by Keith Wolcott » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 pm

It's cool that we are number 1 on Google.

Congrats on getting your drip system up and running. Pictures would be great. Continuous drip for half day on-off intervals is an interesting idea. The necessary rate of water used would be somewhere between the hourly frequency and the 1 second frequency on the wizard.

Thanks for the catch on 1/2 vs 1/12 on the wizard. I corrected my copy and I tried to upload the corrected version to my web site so that the link above would get it, but it is not allowing me to upload at the moment. I will try again later.

Keith W.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:11 pm

I have a few pic's. I built most of this out of spare parts I had laying around.

My continuous drip water change system-
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The external overflow hub has 2- 1.5" inlets so that I can plumb my future river tank into it.

The hose on top is syphoning water from the main tank to the overflow hub. Valve A is closed for when the sump is being filled with fresh water. The hose in the middle goes to the sump. Valve C is closed if I want the overflow to empty into the sump instead of emptying into the python hose that goes to the sink. The hose on the bottom is the python hose going to the sink.
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Valve B is opened when filling the sump with fresh water.
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Valve D controls the pump in the sump. Valve E controls the water flow rate of the spraybar in the main tank. Valve F controls the water flow on the spraybar going back to the sump. Valve F's spraybar has a long hose, so I can use it to fill other tanks also.

Image

This is the spraybar that is controlled by Valve E.
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The outlet in the main tank going to the external overflow is an extra strainer I got with an Eheim canister filter.
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Lastly, the python pump at the sink.

Image

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:17 pm

Your system looks good. I like the flexibility that you have built in so that you can move water in quite a variety of different ways.

Are you worried about air bubbles collecting in your overflow syphon which could result in the syphon breaking?

Keith

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:19 am

Yes, I do worry about an airlock in the syphon hose going to the overflow. Clear hoses and only running the system 8-12 hours per day should help me spot any troubles. I could change the Eheim strainer intake on the main tank to something that is clear and without bends. Yes, I'll definately modify that. Thanks for pointing this out. Let's see what I come up with.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:40 am

I switched to a different style Eheim stainer. This one has piping that is translucent, so I should be able to see if there is air stuck in the line. I'll keep my eye on it. I'm not sure what else I can do. Atleast now there are no blind spots.

The new syphon intake

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The old syphon intake
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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:22 pm

Now that you can see if air accumulates you are probably in good shape. There are methods that people use to handle air by attaching a small hose and small pump at the top that can suck out air (which also pumps a little water). My understanding is that whether there will be a problem or not depends on how many bubbles you have in the water and on the flow rate. If the flow is fast enough, bubbles can be swept right through. Since I am considering having a sump with an overflow like yours on the tank, I would be curious to know if you do get accumulating air or not.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:05 pm

Yes I've seen those small release valves installed on some pvc overflows.

Believe it on not, my water bridges don't accumilate many air bubbles. The only bubbles that I have noticed are from when I do water changes, when I accidentally point the water hose under the water bridge inlets.

I'll keep you updated on this works out. I'm hoping that I don't need to buy any alarms, float valve switches, or cellenoids.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:16 pm

No air bubbles in the hoses or piping yet. Not even a hint of one.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:02 am

I've spotted multiple species of fry tonight. This is the 1st spawning I've had since I took down the old river tank about 6 months ago. I didn't think I'd trigger anything so soon, but this is about as instantanous as it could be; just 5.5 days into this. I didn't think eggs could hatch this quickly. It could be a coincidence though.

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 pm

It's great that no bubbles have formed in your siphon. It's really great that you have fry. Multiple species, but which species?

P.S. A small comment: It looks like your overflow siphon and your output spray bar are fairly close together (maybe I am wrong about this). If they are close, then you won't get as good a water turnover. That is, some of the fresh input water will end up going directly out the overflow.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:03 am

They are bristlenose catfish and boesmani rainbowfish fry.

Good tip also. I'll probably move the spraybar over to a 190g tank, but I'll have to modify the canopy hood 1st.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:08 pm

Water Parameters-

Source Tap Water
TDS- 128
Nitrates- 0

Main Tanks Water Last Week-
TDS- 154
Nitrates - 35

Main Tanks Water Today-
TDS- 133
Nitrates- 10

This drip system is working far better than I expected.

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:07 pm

ChefKeith- I finally got around to checking your data against the water change wizard. According to the wizard, your TDS decrease would happen if you were turning over 24% of your water per day. The nitrate decrease would just need 17% turnover per day. That assumes that you do a continuous drip 24 hours per day. Since you are doing a continuous drip for say 12 hours per day and then stopping it for the other 12 hours, it is more effective than the wizard predicts (just like it takes less water per day if you do water changes less often to have the same effect). But I think the difference is most likely only about 1%. Thus the wizard is suggesting that you are turning over between about 16% and 23% of your tank per day. You indicated earlier that you were going to turn over 11.4% of your tank per day. Have you double checked your rate? Also, was it exactly a week? between the data points? The discrepancy between the TDS and nitrate wizard percentages of about 16% and 23% can be explained by the fact that I did not include any input nitrate. Thus, I would believe the 23% figure would be more accurate. If you are sure that is not your water turnover rate, then I'll have to figure out what is wrong.

Keith

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:33 am

That sounds about right. I've been playing around with the flow rate and the duration alot. To give you an idea, I've been filling the 95g sump everyday or 2 with fresh water. The drip rate was set much higher than 11% most days and I changed the timer on the pump to run for 8 hours per day instead of 12., but when I'm home, I've been letting the pump run longer.

I had my 1st overflow Yesterday. I overfilled the sump with fresh water by mistake. Only about 1 gallon of water got on the floor though. I think I'll eventually add a float valve switch to both the sump and the main tanks. I'll need to replace the python faucet pump at the sink also. If I turned off the water from the sump, that cheap plastic python faucet pump would burst because of the water pressure. It should be an easy fix.


I've made some changes to the wizard also. Added a few good things and added something that needs work.
http://www.geocities.com/chefkeithallen ... zardv2.xls

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Keith Wolcott
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Charleston, Illinois USA

Post by Keith Wolcott » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:02 pm

It's good to hear that the wizard is probably agreeing with reality.

I like what you have done with the wizard. I have not had time to look at it much so I'll have to study it a bit more.

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