Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[mikev]

Martin, Jim, thanks!

Wait a minute....did I miss something? When did you get these beaufortia? Under what name were they being sold?

Today. There were two names: "Borneo Sucker" and G. Punctulatus, the 2nd name supplied by me last week. ... yuck. I decided that since Jim says "get gastros while you can", I should....

How do you guys know Beaufortia from Gastromyson? I really thought I had a positive ID.... Part of the reason for asking is that there are more there and I'm not 100% sure that the smaller ones are the same species (these two are >1.5"==full grown?). Looking carefully, I see a faint rim on the fins, just like in Martin's photos, but none of the fish at the store had any color.

I have heard people say when looking at hillstreams in stores that they "didn't do anything". But as you have discovered, given the right conditions, they are very active fish.

Most certainly, and I don't think I even have right conditions -- yet. I'll try to slowly build up the tank to your standards.

First impression of these guys is that they are less current-hungry then the lizards. In the Q-tank, both SpA and SpB prefer the spot on the glass with the strongest current, these two prefer quieter areas. WCMM's, otoh, clearly enjoy the powerhead.

Hopefully, the flier will help by giving people some basic info and encouraging them to check out Martin's article and give these fish what they need.

I spread it around a bit today.

BTW, if someone feels like releasing some pressure by screaming, http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?sho ... id=1127903&#
may help.

[Martin Thoene]

Read my lips......mouths are an easy guide Mike and the fish are pretty cooperative in shops about sticking on the glass so you can have a look.



TOP LEFT = Pseudogastromyzon TOP RIGHT = Gastromyzon(occelatus)

BOTTOM LEFT = Gastromyzon(ctenocephalus) BOTTOM RIGHT = Beaufortia kweichowensis

With Sewellia, the mouth curvature is even more pronounced than in Beaufortia.....


In the up and coming Loach Book, we have topside and underneath photos available of featured hillstreams and I'm hoping they can be used in the species descriptions to aid ID'ing them.
Certainly, once we reorganize the LOL Species Index, we will put in all sorts of extra pics for that purpose.

Martin.

[mikev]

Read my lips......

Wow! Thank you very, very much!

PS. I want your book...yesterday...

[Jim Powers]

Another tip, gastromyzons tend to be dark colored with light markings. At least that applies to the species you are most likely to find. There is a pic labeled "G. puncalatus" in the species index that looks more like a beaufortia but is probably isn't. (Maybe a light colored gastro of some kind?)
But, if you see them on the glass, there is no mistaking that big gastro mouth.

[mikev]

I may be in trouble, in two ways:

What I thought were P.Cheni's from last week seem to have Beaufortia's mouths...considerably worse is that it seems they brought in ich. Or the original "green hillstreams" had it on them. -- cannot know now. Just when everything was going so well...

And the only way of dealing with this I know requires high temp, hopefully they can stand it for a few days. Real darn.

[Jim Powers]

Do not use the high temp, or salt for that matter!!!
There are other ways to deal with ich.
I have used Nox Ich at half strength on the one group of hillstreams that I had that developed ich. The directions say use it for three days, but I used it for a longer period of time. I dosed until I saw no more spots, then dosed for at least three days afterward. Always add the first dosage gradually, and observe the fishes reaction. They may start swimming around a bit, but should settle down after they get used to the treatment.
There are probably some other good ich drugs you can use on sensitive fish, too.

As far as chenis, with beaufortias mouth, if in doubt, look at the body shape and color, too. Chenis are brown and tan, beaufortia are olive green with black spots. Chenis are more cylindrical and less round in overall build than beaufortia.

Good luck, I hope you get the ich under control!

[Graeme Robson]

New episodes...............

Ponders....

[mikev]

Jim, thanks.

I don't think I have a choice, unf. This looks pretty bad (and very sudden -- I did check every day),..Nox is not something I've seen in stores here, and I cannot experiment with something that I have not used before. More Ich right now than I've seen for a long time; and not starting treatment right away yesterday would have been a losing option.

[Jim Powers]

Well, I hope this works, but I have strong doubts.
The high temps and probably the salt, will stress the fish. At least try to increase aeration.
Good luck, and PLEASE prove me wrong.
Maybe we can learn more about how to treat hillstreams for ich.

[Martin Thoene]

Me...............disease stuff. I hope you prove Jim wrong too.

Martin.

[mikev]

Well, I hope this works, but I have strong doubts.

So do I, but all the options are bad. Aeration is on max possible (strong powerhead in a 10g). Temp is 82F, and the med does include salt. The reason why I really have no choice right now is that it is certain that gills are affected by ich -- I've noticed yesterday, even before noticing ich, that all the hillstreams moved to the high aeration area, now I know why. So the only choice was something that works reasonably fast and right away.

Good luck, and PLEASE prove me wrong.
Maybe we can learn more about how to treat hillstreams for ich.

Thank you -- I'll tell you what happens, of course.

[Martin Thoene]

hmmmm..actually at 82 with good aeration it ought to be OK. I've had my regular tanks up at 90 during an English Summer (no A/C) without problem. I worry about salt though.

Martin.

[mikev]

Not too much salt, it is under 1/3 of what the salt merchants recommend for freshwater fish, and I'm not adding any extra myself, like I'd do with clowns. I'll go to 86F, however, in a couple of hours.

One lesson learned is that I really should have started treatment preventively the moment I saw the outbreak on the remaining hillstreams at the store (Monday). Somehow this ich remained dormant for three weeks.

[shari]

What temp was your tank at before you noticed the spots? Lower temps slow the life cycle...and it usually infests the gills before you ever see any spots.

[mikev]

72F. You think it could slow down the cycle this much?