Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[shari]

Here's a link that addresses the temp issues a bit (just a quick google look )

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:9-3 ... =firefox-a

Look for the red highlighted words...

[mikev]

Shari, thanks, I see. I'm still doubtful that 72F would have that much of slowing down effect; all the ich outbreaks I've ever had occurred at 75F within 3-5 days of infection. Only 3 degrees F... OTOH, if very high aeration level also slows down the ich cycle, this adds up reasonably.

Your link had one very useful detail for me: I was afraid that I also infected the new tank (moved some algae from the Q-tank about a week ago), but maybe I'm safe...it was running at 78F for 10 days without fish.

Lower temps slow the life cycle...and it usually infests the gills before you ever see any spots.

Oh darn. It is slowly beginning to dawn on me...

I assumed that it is normal for the hillstreams to seek air all the time like they did. In fact, this was a disease sign from day one, fully analogous to normal Botias scrapping against the ground. The Beaufortia's in the new tank (without ich, hopefully) have no excessive interest in current.

[mikev]

I did the mouth test on the rest at the store, and all have the same shape (as well as the same colors), so I guess all are some Beaufortia Sp. Not so sure about kweichowensis: all photos of it I could find seem to show a dark ring on the side fins; in Martin's photos above the ring is double: black inside, yellow? outside. In my case, all have no dark ring, but the very edge of the fins is transparent. And the best match on LOL is with the photo on this Gastro page:
http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/ga ... on_sp.html
(which, interestingly, has an unsigned comment : Possible Beaufortia?
).

I'm not fully sure how to pursue this further...Is there perhaps some book like "Fish of China" which may offer more ideas?

[Jim Powers]

We have often wondered if we don't get more than one beaufortia species, but with info so scarce, who knows. Possibly B. leveretti or just a different subspecies?
That's why we usually just refer to them as Beaufortia.

[mikev]

Yes, I think I understand the situation: it is actually even worse than the Pangio mess and much worse than the Botia mess....

Most likely, if one digs up the original papers/reports of Beaufortia species, there would be nothing there about comparisons between different species (still probably worthwhile trying to locate them). In reality we again don't know how many species are out there.... Other than the original papers, there seems to be very little to go on...Counting the rays in the dorsal fins would be one approach (perhaps we can detect differences), but these guys seem to be really reluctant to raise the fin. Maybe when they get settled in better?

B.leveretti (from your tok2 link)
is certainly a possibility, but it appears that going by colors is the easiest way to make an error...

[Martin Thoene]

Yeah Jim.....


Pretty sure these are different species, yet on top they look somewhat similar......might be sexual dimorphism?

Then of course Jim, remember this?





Honest to Dog Mike, no photoshop jiggery-pokery. This is a colour morph I used to own......probably a Sinogastromyzon The shop had a few, but by the time I got there only this one was left. It only lived a few weeks

And I used to own this fish which was a regular colour like all his compatriots, but would change like this when he was on brightly lit Anubias leaves for any length of time (Unidentified species).




Oh and if you think that's wild, check out:

http://www.geocities.com/borneensis/indexikan.html

The site has been up for years but never progressed beyond here. The green Gastromyzon again is totally for real. I've read about these in a few sources. Local morph, maybe diet based.

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

I forgot about your "Yellow guy".
If you remember, I had a similar, if not quite as yellow fish. Probably the same species.
http://www.bobd.lunarpages.com/loaches/jim050.html

Mine, unfortunately, didn't live long either.


So mikev, welcome to the sometimes confusing, always interesting world of hillstreams.

[Martin Thoene]

Yep! Pretty sure it's the same. Did your's just hide nearly all the time?

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

Yes, unfortunatley, it hid just about all the time...then it died. Of course it was hidden when it died too.

[mikev]

Fascinating pictures! Unless I find a green kuhli soon, hillstreams are surely more interesting.

So mikev, welcome to the sometimes confusing, always interesting world of hillstreams.

I love this world quite a lot, despite the current disaster.

I'm also probably naive enough to think that some of the confusion may be possible to figure out. At the very least it should be possible to note and compare morphological factors, like fin rays. Also, it should be possible to get some more information in Chinese.

In case you did not translate the hillstream directory (Jim's link above), here is what it calls the three Beaufortia's listed:

Rock Climbing Fish of XXX province (XXX varies, of course).

This at least gives some hint of where they really come from. I wish we had the Chinese name list for all 12(?) species.

[mikev]

On the new Beaufortia fellows: I'm a bit concerned that I still have not seen them eating or even grazing on the algae (there is some on the ground in the new tank): are they nocturnal?

The tank seems to be fine, parameters are ok, and the dither WC seem to enjoy it, playing with the current and consuming more bloodworms than I thought possible for their size.

Hillstreams don't seem distressed and even show some behavior: it appears that the slightly bigger one dislikes the other one and chased him away a couple of times I saw, so now the smaller one is hiding under the driftwood in a pleco way....(upside down blending in the wood and very difficult to notice...) I wonder if these guys also need larger numbers to solve the aggression issues? But they don't react to bloodworms or shrimp, and if they eat, it is not when I'm around.

[Jim Powers]

Sometimes it just takes time for hillstreams to eat. I would feel more comfortable if it was grazing, but we'll see.
I wouldn't necessarily worry about the chasing, that is typical. When you add the rest of the fish, that should help too.
By the way, how is the ich situation?

[mikev]

Thanks, Jim,

Sometimes it just takes time for hillstreams to eat. I would feel more comfortable if it was grazing, but we'll see.

They are sucking on the driftwood, but I'm not sure it has much on it.

I wouldn't necessarily worry about the chasing, that is typical. When you add the rest of the fish, that should help too.

I'm not worried about the chasing, it is a good sign, if this is how they behave normally. I've added two more just now (In addition to other problems there is a very real risk of the tank becoming uncycled with the current minimal bioload). One quickly changed its color to dark green. More weird stuff.

By the way, how is the ich situation?

Worse than I expected

[mikev]

Here is the green fellow mentioned above. He turned out far the most adaptable of the group: eats everything already, and prefers ground to the glass. On the top picture he is trying to replicate Martin's recent photo; on the bottom picture I really wonder why he raised the dorsal...

[Martin Thoene]

Hmmmm...interesting. I'm not quite sure what you've got there.

Martin.