Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Maybe someone has an idea what this is....

Trade name: "Green Hillstream"

Appearance: probably up to 3", body shape very similar to Schistura, but considerably larger fins (look like paws to rest on); the pattern (above the lateral line) looks like many thin lines curving together into an intricate drawing. Color: grey/green, some brown on the tail. A bit lizardlike altogether.

Probably a brook loach, not a hillstream.

I've looked through LOL and could not find it (does not mean it is not there).

...

Hmm... looking through pictures again. Body shape seems to be similar to Homaloptera...but no matching pattern.
Any hints on what this may be?

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:41 pm

OK, I did find something pretty close:

From LOL page:

http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/li ... paris.html

Graeme's photo:

Is a closely related species; the brown ring on the tail is identical. But the pattern on the loach I saw is much finer (and this makes the loach much prettier).

Any idea if this is a true hillstream or a brook loach like schistura?

(Martin's article seems to say that they need slower current but of course some.)

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:45 pm

OK, it probably was unfair to ask the way I did, but the question now changes, and maybe someone has an idea. (Upon a closer look, the fish appears to be an about equal mix of disparis and something else very similar)

These guys will require a 20L, this is clear. I also will have very limited time to get it running, so fancy ideas are unfortunately out this time.

Question 1: Filter. The choice is between an overhead (Whisper) and as my lfs friend suggested, only an underground. He thinks that this would be enough, and it will be simpler not to have the mess of powerheads and a filter on top.
Any suggestions?

This one is actually the key question since I cannot start cycling until I have the filter...

Question 2: Dither. It appears that there are two choices available around: White Clouds and Mountain Gobis. Gobis look interesting, but the problem is that I will only have 4 or 5 (there are 2 or 3 which came in the loach bag, and I can find 2 more elsewhere).

This one is not very urgent, but any opinions will be very welcome.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:05 pm

This is one with the 2nd pattern, this one is about 1.5in. if this is of any interest to anyone, i have a few more images.

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:16 pm

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech! (Martin applying Mike's brakes)

How's about.....

Homaloptera smithi???

If these fish came mixed with "Mountain Gobis" there's a high possibility of them being Liniparholaptera disparis because historically, they come in as contaminants in shipments of Rhinogobius wui from Quandong Province in china where they live in the same streams.

Jim Powers and I have both bred this species.....note baby in lower right of pic above.

Male and female Pics not up to my usual standard...scans of crappy regular SLR snaps.

White-cheeked goby, Rninogobius wui.

Are these the fish you are looking at?

Whichever species they are, I would not keep them in anything less than a full-blown River-Tank setup.

Martin.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:32 pm

Martin, thank you very much for responding. Please don't dissappear while i can ask you a couple of question.

Exact species is not clear and I don't think it matters. I think Graeme's photo is the best match. I will try to post a couple more photos in a few mins.
I'm not positive on Goby's either, I think it is another species, but no pic right now (too small and making photos at the store had to be done quickly).
Both came from Thailand, not China.

Whichever species they are, I would not keep them in anything less than a full-blown River-Tank setup.

I'll do the best I can within the next 5 days. It will not be up to your standards and will be improved later. However, leaving them at the store where half will be dead in a month is worse and with your advice ---which I badly need -- they will have a reasonable home here. Is this reasonable enough?
And I'm sorry for the rush, but leaving them at the store for long (even if they are "reserved" and I don't mind paying for it) is way too dangerous. (Those Gastros I asked you before went belly up when the store sterilization system failed. These guys hopefully would not.)

Jim Powers and I have both bred this species.....note baby in lower right of pic above.

I noticed you mentioned this in the paper and have to admit this was a big factor in my decision to rush. Sorry.....

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:39 pm

Too more pictures...the rest seem to be much worse.

The loach below does not have the "fine pattern" as the other one; half have, half don't. Some tails have the brown ring, some don't. But I think this is one sp.

With luck and your help I'll give you much better pictures in a week or two.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:53 pm

You know, it may be similar to your very first picture. I need the side view to be more sure.

...

No, it is certainly not the gobi. The ones I saw very much lighter in color...but they also were babies so side fins were probably underdeveloped.

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:57 pm

OK Mike. You got me. No idea right now what those are. If they're Thai in origin that changes things of course. Maybe Homaloptera, maybe Balitora. What do the gobies look like? Anything like this?

Not fussed on an exact match, but is the head rounded like this? Possible that they may be Stiphodon species which again need River-Tank type quarters. Here's a female of of mine of a Stiphodon species I've never managed to ID

If they are Stiphodonsp. they are algae grazers and need to be in an established aquarium. I've had mine around 2 years and they've never eaten any aquarium food. They just graze the rocks.

Martin.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:03 pm

No, gobis were small white things with big eyes.... and they did not come out clearly on any picture I took.

Lets not worry about ID'ing for now. If all goes well, there will be a decent set of pictures in not too remote a future, and this being a different species should make it all more interesting: maybe I'll have something to report.

I think the best way is to assume is that is Disparis or like, and needs a similar environment.

The big question is the minimal requirements to a new 20L to host them say on Sunday.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:06 pm

No, it is a "Schistura-like head"...but barbels are different.

This picture I took seems to show it correctly

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1440/hills26ob.jpg

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:12 pm

In principle, there is another way: I have an established 10g and can kick out most of the inhabitants and lower the temp. But it will be too crowded, not enough place for stones, so this is not the ideal solution....it is what I'll do if I cannot cycle 20g in time.

If they are Stiphodonsp. they are algae grazers and need to be in an established aquarium. I've had mine around 2 years and they've never eaten any aquarium food. They just graze the rocks.

This would be a major disaster...but I don't think these are anything similar. Different body shape, and I believe I saw half-eaten algae pellets in the store tank.

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:25 pm

OK, pretty certain that it's....

http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/cr ... ustre.html

The barbels are the deciding factor. Now I have to cross-reference elsewhere, but I think at least Crossostoma is correct.
Presently, Fishbase is running slower than mollases on a winter's day.

Interesting.....http://www.press.ntu.edu.tw/ejournal/Fi ... 0409/3.pdf

Later,
Martin.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:34 pm

Hmm... It is not impossible. The last two pictures on the page you linked look about right, but the res is too low to be sure.

Does this change things a lot?
(I would have felt better with a species close to what you and Jim experienced with...)

Jim Powers · Post by **Jim Powers** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:42 pm

I agree it looks like a crossostoma. Nice find!!
It should be given the typical hillstream requirements of cooler temps, high oxygen and ample current.
Good luck and be sure to keep us posted as our info from people who have kept this species is nonexistant.

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Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

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