Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[mikev]

Oops. I think I lied (was misled). I'm really sorry.

I just called the store, asked to recheck the label, and was told that specifically this box came from Hong Kong. Which means that China and Taiwan are highly probably.

[mikev]

I agree it looks like a crossostoma. Nice find!!
It should be given the typical hillstream requirements of cooler temps, high oxygen and ample current.
Good luck and be sure to keep us posted as our info from people who have kept this species is nonexistant.

Jim, Thank You!

Could please someone tell me which filter to get? This is really the only thing that matters today, once I set the tank cycling I can relax a bit.

(Is the only undeground filter idea solid? -- if yes, I'll try to find a store that has it, it appears to be difficult)

And if you like these I can get the store to get more of them....but it is probably smarter to see what happens with these.

----

PS. I'm inclined to think that Martin's original guess of Quandong was the right one, and I'm sorry I've confused the issue based on what the store told me(incorrectly). Either way I'm happy if I can keep them alive (the shipment was 2/3 dead).

[Martin Thoene]

Quick fix to provide decent conditions? I would go with the UG filter powered by a big powerhead, but cut the uplift tube on the UG to around 4" above substrate level. You need a powerhead that has the cone adapter to fit a UG uplift tube. I recommend Aquaclears, maybe a 602 (think that's the model). My 802's have been bulletproof in years of continuous use. In an averagely warm house, you won't need a heater. If you have a small air pump around, you can hook it up to the Aquaclear venturi and get good aeration in the tank. The supplied passive air suck tube generally won't work when you lower the powerhead down in the tank.
My method on a quick setup like this? Fill at least half the tank or more with aged water from one (or more) of your other aquaria. Top up with dechlored fresh. Gives the other tank a water-change at the same time!
put some decor or plants from another tank in to introduce bacteria. They're not only in the filter remember. Maybe even mix in some gravel from a mature tank. I'm thinking quick cycling here.
You can always add supplementary filtration later.

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

Now, relax and take a deep breathe....
You could make a rivertank manifold with an Aquaclear 402 powerhead (270gph) and some pvc piping rather easily. That would work great in your 20 Long. Then you would probably want to put a hang on tank filter in the 150 or 170 gallon range, the bigger the better in my opinion. Use whatever brand you prefer, there are plenty out there.
You could also use an undergravel filter plate as the manifold and put a sponge filter on one of the uplift tubes, but Martin's manifold would be a more cost effective way to go.
If you use an undergravel filter, you can drill another hole on one end and glue in an uplift tube to mount the powerhead if you want. Then you cap all the other uplift tube holes but one put an uplift tube with holes drilled in it in place and slide a sponge filter over it.
Another note: Aquaclear has changed the designations on the pumps so 402 ,801,etc. are something else now. Look at the flow numbers to be sure.

[mikev]

Thank you very very much.

I think I understood most of what you are saying. The key thing was really the UG filter question, because it is hard to add it once the tank has been set up; I found a place that carries it. Should be able to find Aquaclaar too (so far only found 301 with 175gph...very worst case, should be good enough for a week and some time later I can probably use it as a secondary powerhead). Anyway, anything except for the UG can be improved later.

Hopefully enough of them survive by the end of the week so it is not a total waste of time. And of course, expect full (and too verbose) reports on what happens.

And I was quite serious about this store ordering some for you, if you are interested. They have a lengthy catalogue of what they can import including other hillstreams, sids, etc.--if there are 2-3 clients who want the same thing. He should be able to ship in the US, at least (I don't know about the Canada import rules). and the prices are not too bad (I'm paying $3 per this unknown loach, "Green Hillstream 2" " in the catalogue).

[Jim Powers]

I appreciate the offer on the crossostomas, but I think I'll just wait and see what shows up here.

By the way, while Martin and I both recommend Aquaclear powerheads, three are other good brands out there that would work in such an application too. I have a Marineland 1100 (?) that puts out 300gph.
For reference,I have a 20 Long river tank and use the Aquaclear 402 (270gph) with a Marineland 170gph hang on tank filter and use the UG filter as a manifold by mounting the powerhead in an uplift tube mounted at one end of the filter as I described previously. I also have a few airstones and bubble wands and an extra Dueto power filter stuck inside the tank (because I had it lying around). There is plenty of flow and the tank is well filtered. It also stays in the mid 70's without a heater.

[mikev]

Thanks for the wealth of advice!

I located 402. I'll unf. need a heater: the only area available is my basement "office" where it may get around 40F... Once the basic tank is set up I'll look carefully at what else you are doing (right now I don't understand how any fish can stay alive with so much movement... ); while there is no hope of me ever approaching your level of artistry but I'll try to still have a healthy setup.

I've also realized something really funny: at the time I've been asking you about Gastros I actually had a 29g with exactly the same UG and a powerhead, and the only fish in the tank which some say should be kept at much lower temps....All I had to do was to change to a stronger powerhead....and I never thought about this.

But now I have to ask one more question: exactly why 20L and not 29? The filter I just bought fits either (same footprint); the cost is about the same; and there ought to be a way of using the extra gallons. I don't think I can put any schistura (not enough floor space), but would not the top area of 29G provide a place for a few sucker-type loaches or something else? (probably wrong thinking on my part, but I'd like to confirm this, if possible)

I appreciate the offer on the crossostomas...

9:1 they are not. I just looked at them again, they are close relatives of disparis or a reg. variation of it, and possibly 2 species. Just in case: the other listed hillstreams include S.Kengtungensis, S. Waltoni, S.Pridii, "Zebra RedTail"--hehe, H.Confuzona and a couple I cannot decypher....

[Jim Powers]

You can definately use a 29. I also have a 29 river tank. You might have a little more room for dither fish in that tank.
Its interesting that, while many fish, even other stream fish, will avoid such heavy current, these fish are built for it and you will see that when you have them in such a tank. They tend to seek out the strong flow and will even rest in it, something other fish can generally not do. You will also get to see more of their natural behaviour under such conditions.

If you don't think these are crossostoma, check out Vanmanenia. They look similar to both crossostoma and disparis.
http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/va ... ensis.html

[mikev]

Bingo! Nearly certainly it is what half of them are. About half of the fish had this strange woven pattern on their sides, the other did not, so I was unsure if this is one species or not (they were nearly identical otherwise). Color is a little off (the picture shows black, I saw green/gray), but this may be merely their unhappiness about the situation. The other half are probably disparis (or the other sex of valmanella???--no this is probably too crazy). If valmanella also comes from S. China, it all will make sense.

(It would have been totally conclusive if I could see valmanella's tails: the fish at the store had a brownish arc through it).

We should know before long, once they are here, I can make better pictures.

I guess the bad news is that nobody (among the LOL regulars) has these either so it is learn as we go? Fine, I'll report.

They tend to seek out the strong flow and will even rest in it,...

Looking forward to it. I have a bit of a vertical flow in the current 29G and it is fun to watch yoyos resting in it (always head down). Even khulis use it. Dither fish, otoh, stays away from the corner with the current.

OK, 29 it will be. I'll start with gobys, and maybe will figure out some slightly bigger dither later.

Thank you very much again.

[Jim Powers]

I can't wait to see pics of these guys.

By the way, gobies as dithers?
The ones I have (rhinogobius wui, the white cheeked goby) are bottom dwellers like the hillstreams.

[mikev]

I can't wait to see pics of these guys.

There will be a lot if they make it. Expect me to brag.

By the way, gobies as dithers?

What makes you think I know anything about this
There were some goby babies in the same bag, so I feel like taking them along, lfs does not know what to do with them.

Should I get 10 (?) white clouds and test the setup on them first? (they are replaceable in the worst case).

I wish I could use my rasboras (redtail)..it would have freed some space in the other tank, but I don't think they'll like the current.

[Jim Powers]

Oh, I see. The gobies came in with the hillstreams. In my case it was the hillstreams (disparis) that came in with the gobies.
They will like the same conditions as the hillstreams.

White clouds are a good cheap dither for river tanks. They do seem to like the current.

[mikev]

You never know what comes out of these bags. This makes it real fun to drop by at the store when they are opening them ... (this is how this thread started: I saw them only yesterday).

(I have one really weird story about *strange things in bags*, featuring a Killer Schistura(?!). Will write it up but not today).

[mikev]

Jim, you probably know the answer here:

Would you keep goby's around your disparis? (Egg predation).

[Jim Powers]

I don't think that the gobies would eat the eggs, since they are buried. I'm sure they would eat the young, after they emerge from the gravel, if they got a chance, though.
I presently have some gobies in with spawning Pseudgastromyzon chenis and am not seeing any young. The gobies spawned once but an SAE that was in the tank at the time cleaned up the eggs.