I had two Yoyos and one died, I have read that if you buy loaches that it should be all at once so that they can then establish the pecking order. If I were to buy two more would it cause unwanted aggression in the tank?
Another concern I have is I wonder if I am not close to overstocking my 55G
what I have in there currently is as follows.
1 lrg Pleco
1 Yoyo Loach (which seems quite happy by the by)
6 Guppies
3 Platies
8 Rainbows
Now I have read some people that agree with the rule of thumb of an inch of fish to ever gallon and have read that is a bunk way of stocking since it does not take into account the mass of the fish in question.
On this I wonder your opinions seeing as I am still somewhat new to the Aquarium Hobby itself.
New to keeping loaches so have a request for opinions...
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Hi,
On buying loaches all at once: IME, not much truth to it. They will reestablish the pecking order when new fish arrives. It is true that for generally peaceful loaches, including yoyo's, you should have several. IMO, 4 is the smallest number, but some seem to be ok with 3. (I keep 5). The worst thing that happens when you add more loaches is a few days of tension.
Yes, you are probably overstocked. The Inch/Gallon rule is generally valid. There are some exceptions to it (for instance, kuhlis can be discounted), but I don't see any in your case. In fact, it is worse since large plecos produce waste in amounts that far exceeds their "inch size". And your pleco (I assume a common or a sailfin?) is likely to continue growing, my common grew for about two years, finally reaching 11"...could have been worse.
I'm assuming that the tank has no plants? For most of the fish you have, plants would be helpful, but your pleco likely will destroy them.
Anyway, the smart thing is probably to get rid of it, this will make for a healthier tank and will allow to add more yoyo's without breaking the rules too much. (Perhaps, I should not be suggesting this, I cannot part with my common waste-producer, but if you can, do.... or get him another tank.)
Hth
On buying loaches all at once: IME, not much truth to it. They will reestablish the pecking order when new fish arrives. It is true that for generally peaceful loaches, including yoyo's, you should have several. IMO, 4 is the smallest number, but some seem to be ok with 3. (I keep 5). The worst thing that happens when you add more loaches is a few days of tension.
Yes, you are probably overstocked. The Inch/Gallon rule is generally valid. There are some exceptions to it (for instance, kuhlis can be discounted), but I don't see any in your case. In fact, it is worse since large plecos produce waste in amounts that far exceeds their "inch size". And your pleco (I assume a common or a sailfin?) is likely to continue growing, my common grew for about two years, finally reaching 11"...could have been worse.
I'm assuming that the tank has no plants? For most of the fish you have, plants would be helpful, but your pleco likely will destroy them.
Anyway, the smart thing is probably to get rid of it, this will make for a healthier tank and will allow to add more yoyo's without breaking the rules too much. (Perhaps, I should not be suggesting this, I cannot part with my common waste-producer, but if you can, do.... or get him another tank.)
Hth
I will take that into consideration. I had already planned on the possibility that Samo may outgrow the tank so if he begins pushing beyond the 10 mark I may try to find someone that has a large tank for him to be sold to. The only problem with this is my Fiancee is attached to him we have had him for the better part of 3 to 4 yrs.
On the plants I tried my hand at some plants I forget what kind at the moment but they died off, am currently debating trying some Java fern and a few of the more hearty aquatic plants since I prefer real plants to fake.
I think I will hold off on purchasing any new fish. From what I have seen the Yoyo seems very happy he plays swimming with the other fish without aggresive behavior, and he has fully dark banding which one site and someone on here I think suggested is a sign of a healthy loach.
On the plants I tried my hand at some plants I forget what kind at the moment but they died off, am currently debating trying some Java fern and a few of the more hearty aquatic plants since I prefer real plants to fake.
I think I will hold off on purchasing any new fish. From what I have seen the Yoyo seems very happy he plays swimming with the other fish without aggresive behavior, and he has fully dark banding which one site and someone on here I think suggested is a sign of a healthy loach.
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Emma Turner
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Hi Cabinny00 and welcome to Loaches Online. 
Yo-yo loaches (Botia almorhae), as with other species of Botia are a shoaling species and need to be kept in groups of 5 or more for their continued well-being. Whilst your loach may seem happy to you, it will be being deprived of contact with it's own kind and being such an outgoing social species, this is quite unfair. You really need to think about adding another 4 or so in order for this fish to truly thrive.
Provided that you have efficient filtration on the tank, and perform regular partial water changes, adding more loaches (of the same species) should not be a problem. Just be sure to quarantine them first.
Good luck,
Emma
Yo-yo loaches (Botia almorhae), as with other species of Botia are a shoaling species and need to be kept in groups of 5 or more for their continued well-being. Whilst your loach may seem happy to you, it will be being deprived of contact with it's own kind and being such an outgoing social species, this is quite unfair. You really need to think about adding another 4 or so in order for this fish to truly thrive.
Provided that you have efficient filtration on the tank, and perform regular partial water changes, adding more loaches (of the same species) should not be a problem. Just be sure to quarantine them first.
Good luck,
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
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helen nightingale
- Posts: 4717
- Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:23 am
- Location: London, UK
Emma is right, you will see the difference in behaviour of your yoyo when you add more. he may seem OK now, but he is likely to suddenly turn agressive if you leave him on his own. remeber you and fish can be healthy at the same time as being very miserable!
i can manage java fern, which says something about it's hardiness. i was also reccommended onion plants by people here, and was so pleased i bought another one.
i have come to the conclusion that loaches can form strong bonds between each other, and 2 large adults i bought that Emma took for rehousing are inseparable, and my other yoyos which i bought at different times do not have such a strong relationship, they do all swim around and interact together. so in my experience, when you buy loaches can have some infulence on how they behave, but mikev is right, the worse you will get if you add them one at a time is a bit of a scuffle as the older ones test out the newer ones
i can manage java fern, which says something about it's hardiness. i was also reccommended onion plants by people here, and was so pleased i bought another one.
i have come to the conclusion that loaches can form strong bonds between each other, and 2 large adults i bought that Emma took for rehousing are inseparable, and my other yoyos which i bought at different times do not have such a strong relationship, they do all swim around and interact together. so in my experience, when you buy loaches can have some infulence on how they behave, but mikev is right, the worse you will get if you add them one at a time is a bit of a scuffle as the older ones test out the newer ones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT ... 1&index=11 spam spam spam
Thanks to you and Mrs. Nightingale for the welcome.Emma Turner wrote: Provided that you have efficient filtration on the tank, and perform regular partial water changes, adding more loaches (of the same species) should not be a problem. Just be sure to quarantine them first.
Good luck,
Emma
What in your estimation would you say is efficent Filtration for a 55g tank? I currently run 2 top fin 60's on it (side note does anyone know anything about this company I got these when I was starting out and did not research them like I should have I cannot find anything on them!!!) I try to check ammonia and nitrates every two weeks or so and do about a 70% water change every 2 weeks, I was changing every week but Samo seemed to be getting extremely stressed out from this so I went to every 2. ( Samo is my large Pleco)
In order to not overload on fish in the tank I am likely going to have to start a separate tank, I do not want to get rid of Samo at the same time I want to keep my Loach(es) happy and healthy as well. With my means at a low currently it is a WIP however.
Top Fin is one of the cheapest filters you can get. They are sold at Pet Smart, perhaps their web site will have the info you need. With such a cheap filter, I would aim to have at least 10 times the tank volume in circulation per hour: 55 gallon tank = 550 gallons per hour.
I use canisters for all my larger tanks (29 gallons and up). Canisters are generally more efficient and you can get away with about 5 X / hour, so around 250-300 gallons per hour. With the Pleco (messier than average) I would always go with more. Your fish generally appreciate good water movement, so, again, more is better. I use HOB (Hang On Back) filters on many of my smaller tanks, and I have found that whatever size the box or instructions suggests is overestimating the capacity by a factor of 2. (A HOB filter that says it handles a 20 - 30 gallon tank will be barely adequate for an understocked 20, and better on a 10-15 gallon tank)
I have 4 Yoyos in a tank, and they are almost never seen singly. In any combination, they are constantly chasing each other as if playing 'Follow the Leader' or 'Tag'. Once in a while one will pause as if showing off, perching on a piece of wood, but then takes off after one of his (or her) friends.
1 gallon of water per 1" of fish works pretty well for fish about 2" and smaller, but only as a rough guide to waste load; it says nothing about personalities, aggression and space requirements. Waste (CO2 and Ammonia) are created based on the mass of the fish, and a fish that is twice as long as another generally produces 8 times the waste.
As an extreme example: Would a single adult Clown Loach (approaching a foot in length) produce similar waste load as a dozen sids? (around an inch to 2 inches)? Would either of these compare to a pair of Yoyos, about 6" long?
If you wish to keep the Plec, then either reduce the remaining population, or get another tank. Plecs are not particularly active, (They do not need the space to swim around in a very large tank) but they do seem to increase the waste in the tank more than average for their size. (Requiring more gallons to dilute their waste between water changes.)
I use canisters for all my larger tanks (29 gallons and up). Canisters are generally more efficient and you can get away with about 5 X / hour, so around 250-300 gallons per hour. With the Pleco (messier than average) I would always go with more. Your fish generally appreciate good water movement, so, again, more is better. I use HOB (Hang On Back) filters on many of my smaller tanks, and I have found that whatever size the box or instructions suggests is overestimating the capacity by a factor of 2. (A HOB filter that says it handles a 20 - 30 gallon tank will be barely adequate for an understocked 20, and better on a 10-15 gallon tank)
I have 4 Yoyos in a tank, and they are almost never seen singly. In any combination, they are constantly chasing each other as if playing 'Follow the Leader' or 'Tag'. Once in a while one will pause as if showing off, perching on a piece of wood, but then takes off after one of his (or her) friends.
1 gallon of water per 1" of fish works pretty well for fish about 2" and smaller, but only as a rough guide to waste load; it says nothing about personalities, aggression and space requirements. Waste (CO2 and Ammonia) are created based on the mass of the fish, and a fish that is twice as long as another generally produces 8 times the waste.
As an extreme example: Would a single adult Clown Loach (approaching a foot in length) produce similar waste load as a dozen sids? (around an inch to 2 inches)? Would either of these compare to a pair of Yoyos, about 6" long?
If you wish to keep the Plec, then either reduce the remaining population, or get another tank. Plecs are not particularly active, (They do not need the space to swim around in a very large tank) but they do seem to increase the waste in the tank more than average for their size. (Requiring more gallons to dilute their waste between water changes.)
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I posted on the freshwater what type I believe samo to be, and yes that is very true it could have been worse. http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=8447mikev wrote:Hi,
In fact, it is worse since large plecos produce waste in amounts that far exceeds their "inch size". And your pleco (I assume a common or a sailfin?) is likely to continue growing, my common grew for about two years, finally reaching 11"...could have been worse.
Soon I am going to go purchase a 20-30g and split up the Live bearers from the 55g tank. Then I will get playmates for the Loach seeing as how he is playing follow the leader as you call it with my Rainbows currently and some of them do not appreciate it. (the big one could care less but that is temporary since as you say Yoyos get about 6in)
Diana on those filters the reason I got them was the cheapness and the flow rate was supposedly 300 hence why I bought two but as you say they are likely overestimated in what loads they actually handle! Originally when I aquired the tank it only had one whisper 60 which subsequently died and had a fluval which had already died and the parts could not be had.
Thanks to all for the advice I decided to go get two more Yoyos a few days ago and have seen them all over the place in the tank. The shop had a full grown one and another smaller one but until I get the larger tank it is just the ones I have for now. So far all is well in my tank the loaches only occasionally pretend they are Rainbows. Again thanks
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