breeding loaches question

[Jeremy]

A kinda wierd question but one I would really apriciate being answered. Having been into keeping and breeding many diffrent types of fish, wondering how the information/ planning on the breeding atemps are handled. Are we all trying to help one another in actually figure out the trigger to spawning and rasing fry simmilar too the Killi people, or is this more along the lines of the plecostomus and catfish people that there atemps are guarded secret? I am not tring to steriotype anyone just an observation Having been in a few diffrent clubs it seemed to be that way, not saying all killi people and all catfish people are that way just a commonality.

[shari]

Jeremy, I share everything. Most others here do also. The main issue is the fish, not my pats on the back.

Got anything good to share?

[Jeremy]

Actually I got quite a few theroies wich is why I possed this question. I don't really want to be attempting what a 1/2 dozen other people have tried with no results. All of them I will be elaberating on in future posts.

1 over hanging plants

2 the needing of the eggs to dry out (like the anual Killis)

3 being a "cuckoo" spawner (I forget wich but one of the synodontus)

4 hormonaly based on a migating fish spawn

5 current and water temp changes

number three is the one the I give the most weight to at this time from reading how the most common thing for spawning type activity is another fish spawning in the same tank

or could be a combination of them

[bgloyn]

One of the regulars, Martin, posted an article on the old forum from a catfish forum in regards to spawning difficult fish. Maybe if he sees this post he can set up a link, I do not know how. Using the information in the article I am currently cycling a 50 gal breeder to try a group of Modestas, all around 5". I believe that that they are large enough as I picked up a trade in at one of the LFS that pased away that was this size and when I checked out the body she was carring eggs.

One of the problems may be knowing when a particular species is large enough to be spawned. While the popular belief is that clowns have to be large, 5" plus, some of the fast growers like YO YO may be ready in as little as 2 years. Mine have reached 4-5" in this time, they have also changed their pattern.

As with other fish species Loaches come from varing habitates and the trigger for one may not ?? be correct for another.

Modesta from the Mekong delta north, dry season to Monsoon
Dario from hiland river streams

I look forward to anybody who is trying to breed loaches to share information.

[chefkeith]

IMO, attempts at triggering spawning could kill the fish. I wouldn't want to be responsible for that.

Maybe some loaches, like clowns, need nearly pure water, with a gh <1, and a pH of 3.5 to 5 to induce spawning. These conditions could cause Osmotic or TDS shock to the fish if they were rushed into it. Peat or driftwood would be needed to get the pH down that low. The tannic acids released from the peat is needed to help harden the eggs.

Water during the rain season would probably also be higher in oxygen and would be cooler than normal.

[Martin Thoene]

Is this what you were talking about Bruce? I forgot I had it in my Favourites.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/bre ... asons.html

Martin.

[shari]

I have gotten YoYos that were smallish (3-4") gravid in my tank by doing large water changes, adding peat and oak leaves. The female was loaded with eggs but the two males were too young (had not yet acheived reticulated patterning) to really know what to do. I did see some spawning type behaviors, but there was no spawning

I was trying to eliminate a breakout of some serious green hair algae at the time and replaced the water by nearly 50% for several days. I also used slightly cooler water (by the finger test method) than that which was in the tank. The cory's spawned, and the bettas, but no eggs from the yo yo.

Keep us posted. Should be interesting if you really are methodical about it. I don't know if attempting to trigger spawning would really 'kill' the fish CK. A successful attempt by a home aquarist would have major repurcussions on the husbandry of these fish. So far it has eluded the hobby fish keeper pretty much. I'm assuming that with due diligence it is not outside of the possible.

[Jeremy]

Correct me if I am wrong. I would figure as long as the water is clean most loaches wouldn't have a problem with semi drastic changes?
Martin have you tried any of those tricks with your loaches? If so care to inform on wich ones you have tried.
I personally think that most likely loaches would tend to try to find pooling water for spawning since a majority are ussally in high current. If adaption has created the need for all the different ways to attach/cling to rocks it would be pretty hard for the eggs to stick around long enough to be fertilized just my thought process.

[bgloyn]

Yes Martin that is the article. Thank You.

I am going to try most of what is in the article with the blues because

Not enough information on the lifecycle behavoir on the Yo Yo's yet.
The blues are large enough.
The blues spend dry season in holes on the river and spawn with or just prior to the rain season.

While the article has you remove the filter for a week I do not think this is correct for this species as even in the dry season the holes on the river have a flow, lower than during the rain but a flow. Other than this modification I will try this out starting this weekend.

Now I have to catch the Modesta, currently in the 135. Its time for a change anyway

[Martin Thoene]

Hey Bruce! I just realized that you're in Georgetown!

I used to go to the Hospital in my former job. There's a fish shop there up on the main drag right?

Martin.

[bgloyn]

Strickly Fish, half freshwater and salts. A little pricy $9.99 for small skunks, but nice guys. I still have not made it up to your neck of the woods to check out the Managerie, have the directions saved in my loach info folder. Gathering info on cherry shrimp, if I could get them established they could provide a source of small live food for the loach tank as they breed.

I have always liked the diversity of life in the salt/reef systems and have wondered how much could be established and keep in a freshwater system.

[Martin Thoene]

Bruce, Harold has been getting in loads of neat freshwater inverts. Shrimps are very "in" at present and there's a lot of species available. You should mail him at:

menageriepetshop@bellnet.ca ......and ask to be placed on his mailing list. Every week you'll get a full colour pdf doc with details of expected or arriving shipments. Pictures an' all! Tell him I sent you

Martin.

[bgloyn]

Thanks Martin.

I need to make sure that I can properly keep new wants before I get them.

[Kit]

Hi folks,

Long time no chat

My loach tanks are doing great, and I have about 5 (I think - they keep flashing in and out of the driftwood!) yo-yos. 3 are slender and longer (abt 3.5"), one is fat and one is extremely fat! These latter 2 are about 3" long. I assume from what I've read that the fat ones are probably girls and the others boys. They are all about 2 to 3 years old.

The really fat one is so round and tight that when she is swimming and comes down to the bottom to land, she bounces and her front fins don't reach the substrate! Clearly happy and healthy, but I wonder - is there any evidence of long-term egg carrying being detrimental or uncomfortable for them? I mean, she looks about ready to explode I don't imagine that she'll spawn, since I'm not trying any of the tricks this thread talked about, or any others, but I was wondering if she is likely to resorb the eggs, or will just spend her life full to bursting!

Cheers,

Kit.

[bgloyn]

One of my Yo Yo's has carried eggs 2 or 3 times now. She gets gravid stays big for a while and then she is back to normal. unfortunatuly I was not keeping track of the time frame for this at the time so I can not tell you that. With the other fish in the tank I do not know if the eggs were reabsorbed or released and eaten.