Emperor Botia described

[Mark in Vancouver]

A new standard by which to question authority?

[mikev]

New standard?

I do question our understanding rather than the authority, trying to reconcile the illustration in the HH's paper with this quote:

I think the absence of polka dots is the clincher.

[Martin Thoene]

Is there something wrong in asking an expert to clarify an issue that puzzles some of us?

Absolutely not. I'm sure that Heok Hee may indeed wish to discuss it. it could be most interesting.

It's just that there are ways to start such a discussion in the right tone. I am sure however that you will not understand this so it is pointless attempting to explain. But that's possibly only my observation.

Martin.

[mikev]

If HH feels that the tone was to any degree inappropriate, he has my most sincere apologies. I've been reading his papers and comments for a long time and feel nothing but the utmost respect for his work.

APPEND. And I join you in hoping that HH notices this side discussion and opts to share his opinion.

[Bagrus dude]

Going back to the rostrata in the paper...

I identified the fish in the paper as B. rostrata because that was the oldest available name that fit the fish. Granted that the pattern is very similar to that of B. kubotai, but there were two things that stood out:
(1) The fish was collected in Bangladesh
(2) It had a much deeper body than similar-sized B. kubotai

It might be something else altogether (something undescribed?) and not B. rostrata. I could not do anything much with a juvenile specimen, not knowing what the adult color pattern would be like. I did want to bring attention to this problem, which is why I chose to illustrate the fish along with a similar-sized B. almorhae to highlight that fact that the purported junior synonyms of B. almorhae (sensu Kottelat) should be more closely examined.

[mikev]

Thank you very much for the explanation HH!

I've tried to collect some Kubotai images on this thread:
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=8932

perhaps it would be of some interest or use to you.

While we don't have any information on the collection points, it has been observed that the animals that share both B.Kubotai and B.Rostrata pattern characteristics appear to have deeper body as well...perhaps indeed there is an intermediate species?

The material from that thread is being reworked elsewhere, with some additional images/thoughts, if it is of interest to you, I'll be glad to send it when ready.

[Bagrus dude]

Mike,

Thanks for the offer, but I try not to bite off more than I can chew when it comes to working on loaches. The rostrata/kubotai problem can only be resolved only with a large series of fresh material (with locality data) from South Asia, which is something sorely lacking right now.
Besides, I am getting back to my first love for now (catfishes; I consider loaches to be not-so-good catfish mimics ), although I still have one loach problem (not Botia ) to tackle in the near future.

BTW, if anyone is interested in using the ontogenetic series picture of B. udomritthiruji for the species page, please go ahead.

[shari2]

Congratulations Kamphol.
Truly an honor.

and mike--i could be mistaken, but I believe that was meant to be a friendly 'Errr' --in case you were unaware of the legitimacy of the source. a 'heads up', as it were.