how many fish in a 57gallon tank?

[arny]

how many lets say 3 inch fish would i be able to stock comfortably in a 57 gallon tank? just so i can have an idea of how many fish i can get without over stocking.
thanks

[kurtns1220]

According to most books and experts that have advised me, you can keep one fish for every gallon that is one inch in length. Therefore, if you divide 57 by 3, you should be able to comfortably keep 19 fish in the tank. Hope this helps

[arny]

thanks it does help

[plaalye]

The one inch rule is ambiguous at best. The type of fish needs to be considered. Plecos are poop machines, khuli loaches are light bioload for their length, just a few examples. What species of fish did you have in mind?

What are the dimensions of the tank. Filtration/water movement? Plants?? These factors will help someone answer your question.

[arny]

the dimensions are 120x40x55 cm.
the tank has 3 long air stones and an external filter (dont know the make)
plants: the tank has a large java fern and other smaller flat leaf plants
at the moment from the other tank that i have upgraded from theres
1 plec (sailfin)
3 silver dollars
4 congo tetras (2 male, 2 female)
7 penguin tetras
1 scissortail rasbora
6 black neon tetras
1 catfish (sold to us as an up side down catfish but it isnt)
in the furture when the tank is mature i would like to add a few yoyo loaches and some kuhli loaches. also add to the numbers of the existing fish such as the scissortail.

hope this helps people

[Diana]

Current fish, and my comments
1 plec (sailfin) Gibbys get REALLY BIG!!! Plan on moving this guy up as needed.
3 silver dollars Can be plant nippers, and there are different species. A very tall fish, but very thin.
4 congo tetras (2 male, 2 female) This is a typical fish that is meant by the 1" per gallon guideline (more notes below)
7 penguin tetras Nice in a group.
1 scissortail rasbora Yes, would be better with more. Sort of the same area as the other schooling fish, though. Maybe not add more. Allow this one to live out its life.
6 black neon tetras Nice in a group. Are they too similar to the Penquins?
1 catfish (sold to us as an up side down catfish but it isnt) There are several species of Synodontis and other Cats that swim upside down and may be sold as USD catfish. The best known is the sort of tan and brown mottled species (S. nigriventris). Another is almost all black, and is somewhat aggressive, gets big enough to eat some of your smaller fish.

More notes:
1" per gallon works well for fish about 2" and under, might be stretched to 3" fish, with caution. Watch the water parameters.

The 1" per gallon guide suggests possible stocking based on oxygen requirements, and waste (CO2, NH3) production. It says nothing about the social requirements and physical needs of the fish.
You have several species of schooling fish. I would reduce the number of different species, and get more of the ones that you keep. For example, keep the Congos, but get more of them, (total of perhaps 8- and I have seen a larger school. Really impressive!) and keep the Penquins, but get more of them. Do not add more of the others (Black Neons or Scissorstail) Too many small schools do not look as good as just a couple of species, but more of those few species. If Congo Tetras get a bit too big, and you want more fish, then the Scissorstails are almost as long, but much thinner. You could build up a school of these with less bioload than a school of Congo Tetras.

www.planetcatfish.com
is a great reference for catfish info. Here is the Sailfin Plec. The second link is to the 'other' USD that is fairly commonly available.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=148
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... cies_id=21

[arny]

yes i know sailfins get really big i had one for 15 years but he died at the beginning of this year he was 12 inches. the current plec is 2 inch but they do grow fast.
silver dollars are plants nippers thats why we got the java hoping thats its more hardy. i have kept silver dollars in my community tanks for 20 years so just cant give them up they are great fish.
i dont want any more congos they are terrible fin nippers and they ate all my regular neons thats why we went with black neons as we found some good sized ones the congos couldnt eat. but the congos do add a bit more colour to what is mostly a black fish tank.
the catfish doesnt swim upside down he just rests under his bridge upside down and hardly comes out to be honest.
i wanted to know how many fish and also what fish to put together as i have kept tanks before but never one this big and its easy to get carried away with buying new fish is vast quantities.
now that im researching and asking about fish i feel more in control to say no to impulse buys.

thank you for your comments do you have any suggestions for more colourful fish that would go well with my existing fish?

(im thinking about the congos i may have to give them away however ive always been the person whos takes in animals and i dont know how i would feel if i gave them away)

[plaalye]

in the furture when the tank is mature

How long has this tank been running?

As far a choosing fish it's dependant on what's available to you. I like to visit the local shops and take pics, write down the names of fish that catch my eye, then go home and research them on the net. It's also a good idea to add fish slowly to allow your bio-filter to adapt. And quarantine!!!!

Best of luck!

[arny]

the tank has been running for 3 1/2 weeks
results from latest test

pH- 7.2
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 20ppm

i am looking into a quarantine tank as one of my fish got fin rot and the amount of medicine i was putting in was huge so decided it would be a lot easier if i could remove that fish and treat it in a small tank, also for when buying new fish.
i posted a different thread on here asking if a q. tank needs a light. does it? and im guessing the q. tank will need to be cycled as well.

[plaalye]

That's a very short time for a tank to have that fishload IMO. It usually takes that lone to cycle a tank my usual methods, unless you have a mature tank to seed from. But, according to your test results, it's cycled. That's about as high as you want your nitrates as you might already know, water changes!

I don't know what it's like where you are but 10gal tanks are cheap and easy to come by. Thrift shops/craigslist/yardsales, I have more than I know what to do with! I think Diana pretty well answeres your question, as always. I have lights on my Q tanks, but they don't need to be anything special. A small table lamp, clamp on worklight, whatever you can come up with. I often just use screw in flourescent bulbs, 6500 K if you can find them.

As for cycling a Q-tank there are many options/opinions and there have been a few threads here on the subject, do a search. I keep one running and cycled with odd fish, and another ready to set up A basic 10 gal with sponge filter-bare bottom-a plastic plant or two. Keep it simple.

[Diana]

It sounds like you are keeping a mixed size range of fish, and that does not always work out too well. The larger fish often eat the smaller fish.

If you are looking for a schooling fish to replace the Congo Tetras you might look into Rainbow Fish. Most are pretty good with other species, colorful, active, and not generally plant nippers. There are a lot of species, though what is available to you might not be such a good selection. Look around, ask the shops if they are willing to order fish for you.

[arny]

i knew it was fast but how long should it of taken?

i did have a mature tank to seed from and i used that bacteria in a bottle stuff. yes lots of water changes up until sunday i was doing water changes every other day of between 5-8 buckets but now that my tank is cycled i will probably lower it to 3 times a week and then move on from there to hopefully get to once a week depending on how many fish i have in there.
thanks for the advise on the Q-tank. im thinking light (as the tank will be in a dark corner), filter, heater, bare bottomed and a an ornament for them to hide in.

Diana - i have a good fish shop close by so i will go in and see what advise they can give me and maybe they can do me a deal on some fish (its always worth a try) once the Q-tank is set up of course.

thanks a lot even if i know a bit its always good to get advise from more experienced fish owners

[Diana]

A cycle that is complete in a couple of weeks is not surprising when you start with a generous population of bacteria from a cycled tank, and add Nitrospiros species of bacteria from a bottle. That is a really good way to go.
Then to monitor the tank and keep up with the water changes is really great.

Without a starter population of bacteria the fish-in cycle looks like this:
Add a few fish.
Do lots of water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite low.
After about 6 weeks add some more fish and repeat the water changes. When that minicycle is done (3-4 weeks) add some more fish and repeat...
It can take as long as 6 months to stock a tank that way, and the fish are exposed to ammonia and nitrite at varying levels which burns their gills, and affects their blood, often leaves them unhealthy, they get sick easier, and die sooner. (Often during cycling)

A fishless cycle, starting with no bacteria can be finished as fast as 3 weeks and no water changes (well, maybe one or two), and no fish are exposed to toxins.

[michealtodero]

It really depends on the kind of fish. A simple goldfish, for example, should have 10 gallons per fish, so 5 goldfish would fit. Mollies require 4 gallons per fish. Generally, the smaller the fish at full grown size, the more you can fit. If you go with a bunch of little neons, they will school and you can have 15-20.

These are really generalizations and not hard and fast rules. My 20 gallon tank, which started with one pregnant molly, ended up with 50-60 fish of all different sizes from adult to tiny baby and I couldn't stop them from reproducing.

It also depends on how often you want to clean the tank, the more fish the more cleaning required.

Find out the kind of fish you would like, then you'll have a better idea.

[Diana]

There are a lot of issues that go into stocking. Just looking at the fish mass and the gallons is only one of the factors.

In terms of waste production and oxygen needs the 1" per gallon guideline works OK for smaller fish.
But these needs are based on the mass of the fish, not the length.

If one fish is twice as long as another then it is also twice as tall and twice as wide. It has 2 x 2 x 2 times the oxygen requirement and produces 8 times the waste.

A Goldfish that starts out as a 1" long baby can grow to 5 or 6" in the first year, and 4" is very common. What started out as a 1 gallon fish (1" per gallon) has grown to at least 4" long, also 4 times as high and wide.
4 x 4 x 4 = 64 times the waste and oxygen needs.
This applies directly to a tank with no filtration, no water turnover, no water changes.

When you are taking good care of the tank you are not limited to that extreme (64 gallons for one half grown Goldfish). But the stocking ratio is not as simple as 1" per gallon, either.
A 4" Goldfish in 4 gallons of water won't work.

Here is a reasonable way to figure waste and oxygen for moderate sized fish (3-5"):
20 gallons for the first fish.
10 gallons for each fish after that.
This will work for fish up to about 5", depending on species.
It requires filtration and water movement.

More stocking guidelines:
Social fish ought to be kept in groups with their own species. They might get away with a smaller tank, socially, because they like being together. But the total mass of the whole school will probably mean that more water is needed to dilute the waste.
Aggressive or territorial fish need space. They may be better in a tank with more decorations, caves, plants and so on to mark their territory, and break the line of site among the fish. There are proven techniques to house different groups of fish, depending on their reaction to crowding, but this is a social issue. They will still need a certain volume of water for oxygen and diluting wastes.

Highly active fish need a longer tank to thrive. They spend a lot of time cruising back and forth. In a short tank they end up swimming up and down the walls. 1' long tank for every 1" of fish like this is the minimum I would aim for. If this is a schooling species you can certainly keep quite a few fish in that same space. For example: Giant Danios get 4" long. Plan on a 4' minimum tank. Now that you have a 4' tank, you can add a lot more Giant Danios, because they all share the space; they are a schooling fish.
Some fish have a hard time turning around, and need a deeper (back to front) tank, or the sting-ray shaped fish need a lot of bare (sandy, no rocks, plants, ceramic castles...) floor space.

Large fish will eat small fish. Even if the larger is more often herbivorous, most will not pass up a bite of protein that happens their way. If one fish is 4 times as large as another then it is highly likely that the smaller will get eaten.
If the larger fish is a carnivore then the 'smaller' fish might be as big as 1/2 the size of the larger. My Bichers ate Cories when the Bichers were only about 4" long. Cories are tall, plump fish, even if they are only 2" long, and well armed. Bichers have a large mouth.

Specific note about Yoyo Loaches: They are predators. My Yoyos ate all my Neon Tetras. Yoyos were about 3" long, Neons about 1". Kuhlie Loaches are long, but not very tall or wide. I would not mix these species. Kuhlies may get eaten.