Stiphodon genus of the Goby

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plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:28 pm

It could be either of those Tyrano? How long have you had them??
Here's a few short vids. There are 6 stiphodon(3 m/3fm) in this 29 gal. tank along with other gobies, gastromyzons, rainbows, and rummy nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb0yyvKfbjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSulRW6rdYs

planty
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Post by planty » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:22 pm

Hello everyone.
Great thread ! one of the best I have ever seen.

I wish to get some Stiphodon but first I have a few questions which I didn't see answered in this thread (my apologies if they were and I missed them). Sorry for getting a bit off topic but I think that a great thread like this has to contain some information about general keeping of this species.

My questions are there for-
1. Is it possible to put DIY substrate for plants under the gravel? (for those of us who wish to grow more than ferns)
2. Are these hill stream fish? Will a strong current be good for them?
3. How many of the specie can be put together in a tank per liter?
4. Those it matter female/male ratio?

Thank you for you're answers and my apologies for any mistakes in my English.

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odyssey
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Post by odyssey » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:27 am

Hi tyrano34!
Can your Stiphodon eat enough algae?

The algae is indispensable food for them.
Probably I think that the pigment to be included in algae for the expression of various colors of the body is important.

Hi planty! Welcome to LOL.

1.  I cannot imagine it what "DIY substrate" is.
As for the size of the gravel, the size that they can have in their mouth is desirable.
2.  I do not know the situation of the habitat of all kinds.
Probably I suppose that they tend to inhabit the sunny river.
The fast flowing stream is unnecessary.
3.  It is up to ability for filtration of the water tank whether several of them per the liter are survivable.
I cannot say unconditionally.
Most of Stiphodon eats only algae. Therefore, enough algae fields are necessary.
4.  Males do a territorial dispute. A state with many females will be desirable.
I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

planty
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Post by planty » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:35 pm

odyssey wrote:Hi planty! Welcome to LOL. Thank you very much.

1.  I cannot imagine it what "DIY substrate" is. DIY stands for- Do It Yourself. I put in my plant tanks substrate witch is made of Peat and Loess(red loam). And over that I put the gravel (quartz). I understand that the Stiphodon dig in the gravel. So is it a good idea to put in my substrate?
Thanks for the answers.

wasserscheu
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Post by wasserscheu » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:47 pm

Hi planty,

Yes, my Stiphodon definitely dig a lot and need at least one nest each. Mine stay over night in their holes and disappear in them a few minutes before light out.

Odyssey show gret videos with females following the males into their nests.

I also use fertilized substrate (low N,P,K but high trace elements) for efficient plant growth. I cover the active substrate with fine sand (0.2mm). That avoids emmiting fertilizer into the open water. If some gets digged out, it won't matter, as the fertilizer used, is similar to the one designed for open water.

My Stiphodon don't dig in "open sand", they dig underneath stones or other stuff on top of the substrate. Therefore stones etc. need to stand on a base which keeps them from sinking into the sand.

My plants are currently in cups, which are accepted as temporary nests or restingplaces, by various fish. I make sure the sandsurfce is free of items that look desirable to give cover, so they don't dig. Sometimes, if the cup is small, they try to dig underneath the root, trying to create a nest.
Once enough "interesting sandboxes" with plenty stones and/or roots or whatever are provided for them, they may leave alone the plant substrate.
Wolfram

planty
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Post by planty » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:16 pm

Thanks wasserscheu!
Can you tell me what do you use as fertilized substrate ?

I'm thinking of putting a netting (plastic, like the ones you get on windows to prevent flies from getting in the house) over my fertilized substrate so it doesn't escape if the Stiphodon should dig to far. Does anyone think this netting will hurt them?

Thanks,
Planty.

wasserscheu
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Post by wasserscheu » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:39 pm

I am only worried about any fish getting below the net. I may use harder stuff, like the grid used to cover rain channels (house roof, to aoid leaves to plug it). Making sure fish can't get underneath.

I use N-P-K in amounts 1-1-2 with trace elements . A solution like fertilizer for normal pot plants (but less concentrated, between 1/4 and full amount) injected into fine sand. That has been working well for years.
Wolfram

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tyrano34
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Post by tyrano34 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:38 am

hi friends sorry for my absence, so my concern and I do not have enough brown algae so I fed on powder pellets vegetarian fish with mixture.

In France there was no female and I find myself with 5 males and 0 female and not for show, if it contiuation, I'll register my fish to the gay parade, laughing ;)

I noticed that prefers brown algae, I'll put an aquarium with lots of stone on a sunny balcony four hours a day with salt cichlid moment to keep a pH of 8 and a pump to release much oxygen.

I think that people should be advised to prepare the stones purchased before introducing fish.

about plants I do not know if it's really necessary.
when watching a video of the natural environment, we just see that there's almost no plant.

http://www.56.com/n_v41_/c45_/18_/5_/cc ... 082164.swf

I advise against the white sand for all the excrements are visible and it's big polluters.

Odyssey you could remember the power of your Filtration and the number of water changes you do ;)

wasserscheu
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Post by wasserscheu » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:49 am

Great video, thanks.

Imho plants are not necessary, but they still love them and keep them clean, that's a nice symbioses. They enjoyed the old (almost dead) leaves a lot. I get all my oxygen from plants only, but need to add CO2 which also brings the ph down a little.

Regarding my ich in the q-tank, the 2nd round did not help and ich is increasing slowly, the only unaffected ones now are the 2 new (remaining) stiphodon and a few of the sicyopterus, the Pseudo gastro's were late in getting it. I used a expensive medication, which claimed to also attack the skin/cyste-phase of ich, but it does not work. I am afraid I got the resistant one. Will buy a normal medication on thursday. If this does not work, use salt and heat, worst case move them all 12hours to a new tank ... that would be torture...
2 Pseudogastro's and at least one Sicyopterus as well as both Stiphodon have used the waterbridge between the 2 q-tanks. I think they like the slime that builds up in the pipes with some flow.
Wolfram

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odyssey
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Post by odyssey » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:06 am

Hi tyrano34.
Thank you for showing video clip of the pairing of S.atropurpureus.
The pairing scene in the natural environment is very rare.

I looked at the habitat of Stiphodon in several places.
Most surface of the bottom of a river is covered with algae in their habitat.
They live on a carpet of the food.

Water plant is not necessary for Stiphodon directly.
However, a lot of leaves are very effective as an algae field.
The surface area that algae can grow in a normal water tank is too small.

I think that Anubias.nana is suitable most as an algae field.
Even if all leaves are covered with algae as for Anubias.nana, it does not wither.
But most aquarists cannot permit a leaf covered with algae.

There is the individual which comes to eat other bait by starvation.
S.percnopterygionus is kept for nearly 10 years, but I have not seen the form that they eat feed besides the alga yet.
In other Stiphodon, there are many individuals which do not eat anything other than algae.

Preparations in an enough alga field are most important for them.
They prefer to the ugly leaves full of algae to the vivid green leaf that man feels to be beautiful.


During the morning of the winter, direct rays of the sun hits the second water tank.
Thus propagation of algae gains momentum with the water tank.
As a result of having eaten enough algae,
the females which laid eggs two months ago laid eggs again.

The first pair of Rainbow-color.
Unfortunately I overlooked the courtship dance.
The female stomach which swelled out with an egg becomes flat on the next day.
I cannot watch a male figure now.
He protects eggs in the nest for a few days.
Image

The second pair of Rainbow-color.
While the first male stay in the nest, this male has a chance of the breeding.
I show below the mosaic of the courtship dance.
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The female of S.percnopterygonus laid eggs, too.
Though her do the courtship dance with this youngster,
the last breeding partner is not this youngster.
This male does not have a proper nest with the youngster that the first dorsal fin does not yet grow.
Image
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I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:04 am

Great sequence of pictures odyssey! Thanks for sharing!!

planty
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Post by planty » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:44 pm

Beautiful!!

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odyssey
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Algae field

Post by odyssey » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:53 am

Hi all

This is the mosaic that a sprout of Anubias.nana becomes the algae field.
The sprout grows up in about 2 weeks, and it is already covered with algae then.
Image

I continue looking for an effective additive for increase promotion of the algae.
Growth of the algae is promoted if I add iron(Fe) content and potassium(K) in the water of the tank.
Because there is the ingredient obstructing an increase of the algae in the additive for aqua, it is necessary to be careful.
Furthermore, I sometimes add the montmorillonite of the argillite for diatom.
Image
Last edited by odyssey on Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

wasserscheu
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Post by wasserscheu » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:10 am

odyssey wrote: ...

I continue looking for an effective additive for increase promotion of the algae.
Growth of the algae is promoted if I add iron(Fe) content and potassium(K) in the water of the tank.
...
When doing my experiments with emersed Echinodorus, I kept them just in a waterbath with potplant-fertilzer. Algae came without further addition after taking the plants out. Fertilzer with well balanced trace elements (like Fe, a very little Cu, Mn, Zn etc) and NPK with less P (example 6-3-6) may work well. I would try the algea only in a soltion of 10% - 25% of the concentration which is recommended for potplants (intruction). Too high concentration will kill the algae, but some experiments will show the ideal concentration. I also would rinse well, before feeding them. Algae can store food for very long, Phosphor (P) for 4 months for example. Additionally I would add a bit of extra potassium (K), I use K2CO3 (some backing powder used for christmas cookies, but still to be carefull as it can reach dangerous high ph reading (Not for children - eyeprotection)).

I also had stones in a transperent pot with not much light, at the windowlatch, I forgot them (used them to hold plants down) I found they grow brown algae, but the fish cleaned them in half a day... so need to start an algea farm like you do, I will put the stones into white cups, that reflects the light better and the cup can grow algae too.

The algae on the below picture, is very soft, but free floating and looks great when moving in the flow. Originally, it grew on a plant, but the Sicyo’s cleaned the plant within 2 days. The remaining freefloating they ignore, so I designed an open filter, that keeps the algae down. If they don’t eat the algae itself, at least it will promote the growth of aufwuchs.

Image

The bottom side works great as shelter, which they enjoy. I try to keep filtermaterial accessable from all sides, also for other fish, Garras for example keep „cleaning“ their suface.

Image
Wolfram

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odyssey
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Post by odyssey » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:25 am

Hi wasserscheu!
Thank you very much for the detailed know-how of the algae cultivation.
I will refer to it.

I finished the editing of the video clip and uploaded it to Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV69Wn4_Eyw

1 male of S.percnopterygionus is courting 2 females.
It's the very enviable situation for a man!
This male probably seems to have taken care of 2 female eggs.
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I exhibited a male variation of Stiphodon.sp, "Orange-fin" this time.
I introduced the female variation before.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=105

In Japan, they are called "Orange-fin" bonze goby.
They are usually mixed in "Ranbow-color", and it is sold.
The characteristic that it is easy to distinguish of this group is small black points design of the head.
I have not yet taken their courtship dance disappointing.

According to the mitochondrial DNA analysis that Dr. Mukai performed before, it is suggested that a close species with some differences is mixed in this group.

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Pictures of the most disturbing "Blue-moon" group are being edited at present.
I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

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