N itrates always zero (planted tank question)

[Katy]

Our big tank (the 120 gallon) is planted, but I wouldn't say densely. The plants have started to look peaked and I am wondering if that is related to the nitrAtes consistently being zero -- even before water changes. We have eco-complete substrate (and some flourite as well). I don't know the stats on the lighting at the moment.

Fish are happy as can be.... which for us is the main thing, but I would like to have happy plants and fish (and I am afraid of CO2 addition as I have read too many fish disasters)

[clint]

You could add some nitrogen seachem sells it, that would bring up the nitrates, you do want some in a planted tank.

[soul-hugger]

Hi Katy..,

How often do you clean your filter? Sometimes a tank can be "too clean." Nitrates build up as the nitrogen cycle completes itself, also with the accumulation of organic material. The more plants you have, the faster the cycle will go through its phases as the plants use up available nutrients.

You might also question the accuracy of the Nitrate test you are using. I have had problems with these tests before. It seems strange that the test would be showing no nitrates at all. Usually there are at least some.

In my own personal experience, I've had less problems keeping fish happy than keeping plants happy. I have a total green thumb when it comes to terrestrial plants, but aquatic plants are another matter. There seems to be a huge learning curve with these. I've seen that even in two tanks with near identical conditions, certain types of plants will grow in one but not the other, due to a complicated set of factors.

Hope this helps.
soul-hugger

[clint]

Are you using API's reagent liquid test kit? If so i've read that solution bottle number 2 needs to really be shaken up. Like shaken for minutes and slammed against a table or the like. There is a solid in that mix which needa to be mixed well.

[Diana]

When you have assured yourself that the test is accurate, then there is a problem with the NO3 always being 0 ppm. The plants are removing all the nitrogen they can and probably want more.
Seachem Nitrogen fertilizer is a good source, if you do not mind buying water. I use dry fertilizers, and add water myself.
I get the fertilizers from
www.aquariumfertilizer.com
KNO3 for nitrogen (supplies a little potassium, too)
KH2PO4 for phosphate (supplies a little potassium, but very little)
KH2SO4 (main source for potassium)
CSM+B is a trace mineral blend. It has a little of most of the trace minerals that plants need. Maybe not enough iron.
Chelated Iron is a good source of iron.
I use DIY/ yeast for carbon dioxide.

[Katy]

Thanks for the input!

I shook it long and hard, and the nitrates are detectable, but not as high as 5. At least there are some!

We have 2 filters on the tank, and alternate cleaning them so one is cleaned every week, but we just rinse the sponges and ceramic doo-hickeys to get the grunge out, nothing more. The ammonia and nitrites are always zero. And there is a lot of substrate and rocks and driftwood that I am sure are also contributing to biological filtration. so I don't think our tank is "too clean"

I have been reading some on the natural planted tank forum and it seems there is a lot of debate about how much water changing is enough vs too much. Maybe it is finally time to get a TDS meter and go by that?

Thanks for the link, Diana. I think I will go ahead and order from them. Still thinking about the Flourish, though. I do think the plants were looking better before we added the powerhead, which leads me to believe we are losing more CO2 with the added circulation. I wish there were a truly fish-safe and inexpensive way to add Co2!!!

[clint]

Flourish is just trace elements, what you really want would be their root tabs they work great, a box would cover your tank well. The root tabs is a more balanced source of the 3 most needed elements to plants and those are nitrogen, phosphate and potash. They are pretty big tabs so i cut them in half and placed them evenly throughout my tank or where ever i have plants growing. I sunk them near but not to near, the plants as the LFS store suggested otherwise you risk burning the roots. Then on top of that you could add flourish just to make sure you have all the nutrients covered. Flourish is a good product, but not a stand alone, all in one fert. I wish it were that simple, but then they wouldn't make as much money right?

[Diana]

Seachem sells a line of products with each macro fertilizer in a separate bottle because all tanks are not the same.
Some of my tanks need the nitrogen (NO3 almost always tests under 5 ppm, and often 0 ppm) and some tanks usually test closer to 20 ppm just from fish food.
Seachem is smart to package each item separately.

Seachem Flourish Nitrogen
Seachem Flourish Phosphorus
Seachem Flourish Potassium
Seachem Flourish Trace

are good products.

BUT

They are fertilizers and minerals diluted by water. When you buy liquid fertilzers (for the aquarium or the garden) you are also paying for shipping the water.

For the garden or for the tanks I get pure agricultural grade chemicals and dose just the amount the plants need. I buy water via the tap, and dissolve the ferts as needed.

I bought the various liquids once. That way I got a labeled bottle to use for further mixing.

[Katy]

I think I meant Excel? Is that the liquid carbon additive alternative to CO2?

[clint]

Yes, thats the stuff. Kents also has a liquid carbon i'm trying out now, just into the second week of use, so i can't comment between the two products yet.

[Diana]

Yes, Seachem Excel is a liquid carbon substitute. Many plants can use it. It can kill a few plants. Anacharis and Valisneria are two plants that can only tolerate a very low dose.

[Katy]

Just ordered both the dry mix (from Diana's link) and some Excel. Hope they help!

We got a call from our pusher yesterday, so had to make a trip to the fish store an hour away today, and then to their sister store 1/2 hour beyond that. Worth the trip, though. 4 Sewallia, a pair of Apistogrammas, some shrimp, more plants and Otos, and she gave me some MTS as well as some "feeder" snails. The snails are in the shrimp q-tank, will hopefully let them breed there until there are good numbers to put in the big tank.

Thanks for the advice!

[Katy]

Got the ferts and the Excel, and am anxiously awaiting planed tank nirvana

How long does it take for MTS to multiply? And how will I recognize the babies and not suck them up when I vac the q-tank?

[soul-hugger]

The Malaysian Trumpet Snail is a livebearing snail. Becuase of this, they seem to multiply very quickly. Whenever I have added them to a tank, the first ones usually disappear into the substrate, and I wonder what has become of them. Then, two weeks to a month later, there are so many I don't know what to do with them all. The babies are quite small, but they look just like the adults with a little less pointy shell.

Sometimes the MTS do go up the siphon. In my case, this is not a bad thing, since I have so many. But if you want to avoid sucking them up at first, wrap a piece of pantyhose around the tube.

It won't be long before you have a large number of these helpful snails. If it takes awhile to start seeing them, avoid the temptation to add more. I made this mistake more than once. Usually they come out at night and gather on the surfaces in the tank.

I'm sure you will notice a difference to your plants once you start adding the fertilizer too.

soul-hugger