Sick clown - what else can I do?

[JonRead]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster - have learned a lot from you all over the past year!

But on to my reason for posting... I brought home 3 clowns from my local Maidenhead Aquatics on Sunday, and one of them doesn't look good at all

It's not eating, quite skinny, clamped dorsal fin, frayed tail, and just hides a lot. He's now living in my hospital tank on his own, as I have just noticed a slight nitrite spike in my main tank (due to over-zealous filter cleaning, I'm afraid).

Water parameters are Amonia 0, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 10-15 (tapwater is 10+ here in Hampshire), temp 25. The hospital tank is 0, 0, 10-15, also 25-26 degrees C.

My question is, any idea what's wrong, and what else can I do for him? He's not flicking, no sign of ich, no apparent fungus etc. All my other loaches in the main tank are fine, including the two that came back with him.

Feeling a bit worried here, hoping it's not some kind of internal parasite

Thanks for any advice,
J

[Emma Turner]

Hi Jon,

Welcome to Loaches Online. Sorry to hear about the problem with one of your new clowns.

Did the affected fish look ok in the shop? How long has your main tank been set up for?

Are there any other symptoms such as rapid breathing etc? 25 deg C is on the low side for clown loaches, they do best around 28 deg C in my opinion, but at higher temps you must be sure to increase oxygen levels via additional powerheads etc.

If the fish appears very skinny, it could have internal parasites. At our store, we treat for this before selling, but most stores don't. You may need to source some Flubendazole (commonly used for de-worming discus) or Levamisole if this is the case.

Emma

[shari2]

Hi, JR,
Welcome to LOL.

Have a look here and see if this is similar to your clown:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... ny+disease

[JonRead]

Hi Emma,

Thanks for the quick reply. His breathing seems OK in comparison with the others, but he's just very lethargic, not eating, and resting in odd positions. Odd even for clowns - I mean propped up on one fin at 45 degrees, for example. I couldn't say if he looked OK in the shop - they had three standard MHA tanks full to the brim with clowns (~1.5" each), and I didn't see him before he was bagged up.

The hospital tank (18", filled 2/3rd full at about 25L) has an internal cannister filter pumping out over the water level and splashing, so I think oxygen should be OK if I raise the temp slightly.

The main tank has been established for a year. It's over-filtered by an Eheim 2028, and my cories and angels spawn which I believe is an indicator that water quality is usually OK.

From spending some time (ok, several hours) going over old threads in this forum I'm beginning to think it's more likely to be bacterial than parasitic. Specifically because of the lack of appetite and the frayed tail fin. Do you think that's likely?

Now I need to figure out where to pick up some Flubendazole and/or something to treat bacterial infections - it doesn't seem that easy in the UK!

Thanks for your help,

J

[JonRead]

Hi Shari,

Have a look here and see if this is similar to your clown:

It doesn't look the same, no - the loach is very small and slim, but doesn't seem "bony".

I did see that thread after a bit of searching today, and it's making me think that perhaps it's not a parasite.

Thanks
Jon

[JonRead]

Looking at these, I'm confused even further! This is the clown in the hospital tank, sitting curled up and unstable, completely ignoring catfish pellets.

Anyway, the good news is that my vets also treat farm animals, and have ordered some Levasole (Levamisole HCL) for me that's due in tomorrow. Hope that's not too late - maybe it will be for this little guy, but I'm sure it will help others in the future. I wonder, is it good practice to treat all incoming fish with this stuff?

[LoachOrgy]

ah poor guy, looks like cws. i am treating some cherry barbs atm with it. and it seems to be working thus far. althought i have lost several fish to it in recent times. Keith Wolcott has a mix that is for a 20oz bottle that is easy and works well. It is in one of his tank threads.

[Emma Turner]

Hi Jon,

I would say that fish has got Chronic Wasting Syndrome (a.k.a. skinny disease) plus some sort of bacterial infection. You need to start treating the bacterial infection sooner rather than later, as these can spread very quickly and in an already weakened fish (from CWS and from being caught out/bagged up/moved recently) it can go downhill very rapidly. A product such as Waterlife's Myxazin or Interpet No. 8 would be your best bet.

Good luck,

Emma

[JonRead]

... unfortunately, the poor thing didn't make it through the night. The infection spread incredibly quickly. Makes me pretty gutted I didn't catch it earlier, by the time I managed to get anti-bacterial medication in with him it was too late.

His tankmates are all doing well, including the two clowns that I got with him - they're happily schooling with my existing (much larger) three. I'll pick up the levasole today and dose them anyway, as they're not exactly fat.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Jon

[Emma Turner]

Sorry to hear this Jon. De-worming all your other loaches is certainly a good idea.

If you do look to purchase more clowns in the future, I'd suggest going for specimens over 2.5" in length. I personally do not think clowns should be bought in at tiny sizes because they are not as strong and need intensive feedings with tiny foods that cannot be given in the average home aquarium.

Also, do ask to see the fish that have been caught for you - you are entitled to do this to make sure you are 100% happy with what you are being sold.

Good luck with the others, would be great to see some pics of the tank. I'm sure others here would love to see it too.

Emma

[JonRead]

I'm afraid it gets worse. The infection has spread to one of my existing clowns (about 3.5"). He/she is sitting under some bogwood with a third of it's tail in tatters, and has stopped eating. This one is far from skinny.

A betta and a danio have died - though with far fewer external symptoms.

I've dosed the tank with Interpet No. 8 - the only thing I could get at short notice - but can't help wondering if No 9 would have been better?

I do have some melafix, and was wondering if that (and/or something else like garlic) might help, or if it's dangerous to use with the No. 8? Is there anything I can safely add that would boost the fishes immune systems?

Trying not to panic!

I totally agree with you, Emma, about the small clowns now. A mistake I won't make again.

J

[Ardillakilla]

Internet search isn't really turning up the ingredients for Interpet 8 & 9 but there's probably no reason you can't use both. Once you start, don't stop until the fish are dead or recover. The worst thing to do is to try an antibiotic (I'm assuming they're antibiotics) for one day and not notice any obvious improvement and stop.

Don't waste your time with homeopathic remedies. Those won't help unless the animal would get better on its own in the first place.

[JonRead]

Hi,

Internet search isn't really turning up the ingredients for Interpet 8 & 9 but there's probably no reason you can't use both. Once you start, don't stop until the fish are dead or recover. The worst thing to do is to try an antibiotic (I'm assuming they're antibiotics) for one day and not notice any obvious improvement and stop.

Unfortunately, we can't get antibiotics OTC in the UK. The active ingredient of No. 8 is Phenoxethanol, I'm not sure about No. 9.

J

[Ardillakilla]

I get prescription antibiotics for my fish from my vet. Usually, the OTC antibiotics available in the US are sufficient though. It seems like you don't really have an option but to start ringing vets.

If I was in your situation, I would stock up on medications. Even in the US where we can get many useful medications OTC, people will still stock up so that there's no delay in treatment.

[shari2]

It certainly does sound like you need a good broad spectrum antibiotic. This may not help much but here are some options:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfishmeds.htm