sick Clown Loach-with pics..3/25/09 NOW with water parameter
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sick Clown Loach-with pics..3/25/09 NOW with water parameter
Ok, this is the first time I have posted in literally years. I used to be a frequent visitor, but now have a 3 year old who keeps me pretty busy, so I don't get a lot of time. Long story short.. I now have a 55 gallon tank, which has been set up and well established for 9 yrs total, 4 yrs in our new house. It houses 4 clowns, which I have had since 2000, 5 Kuhli Loaches since 2000, and some Swordtails, which have been in for over a year now, with new babies they have occasionally. Also 1 Pleco for about the last 3 yrs. To be quite honest, my motto is if it's not broke, don't mess with it. I do regular water changes and keep the filter media changed regularly also. But as far as monitoring the ph, nitrites, nitrates, I will have to admit I haven't checked them in years, because I have had a perfectly helathy environment, with fish thriving, happy and healthy. My filter is an aquaclear 500, and does a super job. Ok, so to the point, one of my clowns has alwaya been a bit of a shy loner, he likes to get in this tube alone and stays hidded where the other 3 are out being showoffs.. Well, yesterday and today he is out.. only he does not look at all healthy.. He still eats fine, only his gills are working very rapidly, and are slightly red in color. His orange color is very ashy gray, almost irredescent white.. This is not normal for him at all, and I know it isn't simply "graying out" he is sick or something. I went to pull out the test strips on my lunch hour and check the water, only they are all out of date and none worked! I live in a very small town, and will be this weekend before I can make the 50 mile drive to a fish store to purchase anything that might be useful.. All other inhabitants are happy and healthy. Does anyone have any suggestions for me or any ideas on what this could be?? He is at least 10 yrs old I would guess, but I have read that they can live much longer than that. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, the tank is airiated(sp?) and lushly planted (Not live plants though), plenty of hiding spots, caves, etc .. Please feel free to ask me any questions you think might help. Regina
Last edited by sunshine on Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sunshine,
Can you post photos?
Sounds like a spike in some aspect of water-quality. Maybe you gave a big feed, a little Chlorine was left in the water with last change or (heaven forbid) someone died and is rotting under the decorations. 4 mature clowns n' pleco in 55 gallons will move your water parameters towards bad very quickly. Plenty of poop there.
You're going to get grief for having 4 clowns in a '55.... they really need more space.
Apparently they'll live for >40 years and will get to well over a foot. Smaller tanks lead to stunting, deformity and reduced life-span. At 9 years yours should be getting up to >8". If they're particularly smaller then that then you may be doing them a disservice. If they are that size then they are getting squooshed.
Nice excuse to get a bigger tank: "But honey, it's for my stripy babies! They did so much for me keeping me sane through the pregnancy" .....etc... :)
Think about 100+ gallons for these guys. Check "Craig's List"- recent economic down-turn should have 1/2-hearted people unloading their "extravagances".
A
Can you post photos?
Sounds like a spike in some aspect of water-quality. Maybe you gave a big feed, a little Chlorine was left in the water with last change or (heaven forbid) someone died and is rotting under the decorations. 4 mature clowns n' pleco in 55 gallons will move your water parameters towards bad very quickly. Plenty of poop there.
You're going to get grief for having 4 clowns in a '55.... they really need more space.
Apparently they'll live for >40 years and will get to well over a foot. Smaller tanks lead to stunting, deformity and reduced life-span. At 9 years yours should be getting up to >8". If they're particularly smaller then that then you may be doing them a disservice. If they are that size then they are getting squooshed.
Nice excuse to get a bigger tank: "But honey, it's for my stripy babies! They did so much for me keeping me sane through the pregnancy" .....etc... :)
Think about 100+ gallons for these guys. Check "Craig's List"- recent economic down-turn should have 1/2-hearted people unloading their "extravagances".
A
"I can eat 50 eggs !"
I tried to get some pics at lunch, but he kept hiding.. I will try tonight again and see if I can get a good one. I would guess the clowns are about 6-7 inches, at the largest from tip of fin to nose... I know there is nothing dead in there, because I was able to count them all at lunch time, even the kuhlis.. The larger tank idea, yes, would be great, but honestly, I can't afford even a used tank at this time unless one is just given to me. I check Craigs and e-bay regularly for one near me, and to no avail nothing within my range. I do have some awesome pics from a few weeks ago at the last water change, so I will post them to get an idea of what the tank set up loos like. I will try putting in a slice of zuccini tonight and see if I can get a good shot of the poor guy too.. He generally can't resist that. Thanks, Regina
Another after thought is to say the temp stays around 78-79 degrees Farenheit...
Congrats on keeping the fish healthy for 9 years. That's an amazing accomplishment itself.
With this vague description of the tank, my one in a billion guess is that some rocks are leaching in the tank. Just a guess though.
My other guess is old tank syndrome. If the tank is 9 years old, then maybe it's time to change some things to prevent stagnation in the gravel.
I'd also guess that the tank needs more filters and more frequent water changes. I'd recommend at least two 20% water changes per week.
But perhaps the loaches are just getting bored if they have been in the same tank for 9 years. Clown Loaches are curious creatures and appreciate some stimulation.
With this vague description of the tank, my one in a billion guess is that some rocks are leaching in the tank. Just a guess though.
My other guess is old tank syndrome. If the tank is 9 years old, then maybe it's time to change some things to prevent stagnation in the gravel.
I'd also guess that the tank needs more filters and more frequent water changes. I'd recommend at least two 20% water changes per week.
But perhaps the loaches are just getting bored if they have been in the same tank for 9 years. Clown Loaches are curious creatures and appreciate some stimulation.
Combining a few ideas from above:
As the fish grow they produce more waste. More frequent, larger water changes would help.
Curious fish would do well with moving things around in the tank. Be prepared, however for some major water chemistry issues. When you lift rocks and driftwood there will be a major cloud of debris, and this can be toxic.
Here is how I would approach this problem:
1) Test your well water for all the tests you have.
2) Do as many water changes as you can that include some thorough gravel vacs close to the decorations, but don't move them, yet. Try to get the debris out from under.
3) Keep up the rotation of foods. Each fish probably has their favorites, but by offering as wide a range of foods as possible you are hoping to include all the necessary vitamins and minerals.
4) After several water changes and gravel vacs try moving one thing, A rock. A piece of driftwood. Have the gravel vac close by, and remove as much debris as you can.
5) Repeat the moving of one item at a time, perhaps once a week, with continued water changes.
Well water can vary in composition, depending on how close it is to the surface. Winter rains and snow melt will seep though the soil and enter the aquifer, bringing with it whatever there is on the surface. Your well might tap into an aquifer that gets water from several miles away. In farming communities wells are often contaminated with nitrates from fertilizers and animal wastes. Pesticides can also be a problem. Chlorine or chloramine is not usually a problem in wells.
As the fish grow they produce more waste. More frequent, larger water changes would help.
Curious fish would do well with moving things around in the tank. Be prepared, however for some major water chemistry issues. When you lift rocks and driftwood there will be a major cloud of debris, and this can be toxic.
Here is how I would approach this problem:
1) Test your well water for all the tests you have.
2) Do as many water changes as you can that include some thorough gravel vacs close to the decorations, but don't move them, yet. Try to get the debris out from under.
3) Keep up the rotation of foods. Each fish probably has their favorites, but by offering as wide a range of foods as possible you are hoping to include all the necessary vitamins and minerals.
4) After several water changes and gravel vacs try moving one thing, A rock. A piece of driftwood. Have the gravel vac close by, and remove as much debris as you can.
5) Repeat the moving of one item at a time, perhaps once a week, with continued water changes.
Well water can vary in composition, depending on how close it is to the surface. Winter rains and snow melt will seep though the soil and enter the aquifer, bringing with it whatever there is on the surface. Your well might tap into an aquifer that gets water from several miles away. In farming communities wells are often contaminated with nitrates from fertilizers and animal wastes. Pesticides can also be a problem. Chlorine or chloramine is not usually a problem in wells.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Well, I can't think of any pesticides, etc.. We live on the tip top of a hill, with only one neighbor, who is downhill from us, and we have not used any fertilizer, pesticides, etc. We add only lime into our garden area, and haven't done that since last spring.. We are very careful(esp with a child) to not add chemicals, etc to the earth... I just changed around the tank decor about 3 weeks ago, and try to do this about every 3rd or 4th water change so as to keep it interesting and new. I also added a few new plants about 2 months ago(plastic or cloth) and about every other change I do clean under the rocks, caves, etc.. I did manage a few pics this morning of the fellow and his friends, and he is just as active as ever, seems normal, in actions, no red gills or heavy breathing, eating well, only still the discoloration and a little skinny looking.. I will load these pics to photobucket and post in a few minutes. Thanks for all the suggestions also.. We are heading to Asheville tomorrow, and will buy some new test kits so I can get accurate info. Regina
Finally, some pics of the "sick" clown
Ok, here is the best I could get.. In the second pic, he is the one that is vertical and mostly showing belly...
Hope these images can help... Regina
Hope these images can help... Regina
ok...some water parameters finally
Well, I did get some test strips yesterday, and nothing seems out of the norm.. I have nitrites at 0, nitrates around 40 ppm, my water is pretty hard, ph just over 7.0... All other fish still seem just fine, the "sick" loach is still eating well, but very gray/black in color... His gills aren't as red, but still rapid breathing.. He hides a good bit more than the others, and is a bit of a loner, but this has been his personality since I have had him.. I am very puzzled here...Any help???
That does not look like a healthy clown 
When the 'colour change' began did you do anything to the tank-large water change for example?
The test strips are not themost reliable of water tests-you would be much better with liquid test kits as they are far more accurate. Your nitrates are a little high-20ppm max is what I would suggest with 10ppm being prefered.
Is there anyway you can find out your kh and gh of your tank water and also the tap water/water source you use to do your water changes? It would also be a good idea to check tds levels as well
It might just be from the photograph-but are his eyes a bit cloudy??
I see that you have also mentioned that he has lost weight/is a little skinny-you might be best having to treat for internal parasites, although since you have not added any new fish it would seem odd that they are taking hold after 8/9yrs..... unless the fish is stressed
Im going to guess something to do with water chem or possibly some sort of bacterial problem (going if the eye is cloudy).
If you could try and find out your kh and gh that would be a big help and also each time your nitrates hit 20ppm do a water change-clown loach are fairly sensitive to nitrates.
Ashleigh
When the 'colour change' began did you do anything to the tank-large water change for example?
The test strips are not themost reliable of water tests-you would be much better with liquid test kits as they are far more accurate. Your nitrates are a little high-20ppm max is what I would suggest with 10ppm being prefered.
Is there anyway you can find out your kh and gh of your tank water and also the tap water/water source you use to do your water changes? It would also be a good idea to check tds levels as well
It might just be from the photograph-but are his eyes a bit cloudy??
I see that you have also mentioned that he has lost weight/is a little skinny-you might be best having to treat for internal parasites, although since you have not added any new fish it would seem odd that they are taking hold after 8/9yrs..... unless the fish is stressed
Im going to guess something to do with water chem or possibly some sort of bacterial problem (going if the eye is cloudy).
If you could try and find out your kh and gh that would be a big help and also each time your nitrates hit 20ppm do a water change-clown loach are fairly sensitive to nitrates.
Ashleigh
Thanks for your reply. I had done nothing new, or large water changes when he started looking poorly.. The eyes, no they aren't cloudy, just always seem to appear that way in the photos, perhaps from a flash? I will try and keep a check on the nitrate level, and plan to do another water change this afternoon.. Other than appearance, he seems rather normal in his behavior. Thanks again for the suggestions! Regina
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