My Clown Loach & Algae Eater Are Ill Need Help Please...

[bieksa_rocks]

First of all I'm new here so hi all and greetings from England.

I've taken on my fathers fish tank because it went into a horrible state because he wasn't looking after it.

All that were left were 2 clown loaches and what I assume to be a golden or bi colour alage eater, I moved these to a temporary tank that I set set up prior so all water qualities were good. I then did a major re clean of the main tank got all the water levels back into all the good ranges I know my water quality is all good because I test almost daily because the tank set up is still only about a month old so I'm kind of paranoid. Annoying thing is since I've re started the tank from scratch 1 of my CL's and the Algae eater have got sick, typical now the tank is all in tip top condition they are ill yet left alone in water that was off the scales on all the water tests they were fine.

My Algae eater he become 50% covered in a greyish colour with hints of white and green, so I was thinking slime / velvet disease so I treated with interpet (typo?) brand anti slime velvet. The Algae eater is still partially discoloured but looks like it's getting better.

This past month both Loaches started to flick against the substarte and rocks etc. so my LFS said I should treat for ich, neither showed signs of ich as one had it before which I treated succesfully, they havn;t shown any similar signs of slime until this past week, my bigger loach about 5 inches is totally fine yet the other loach has become ill, he looks like he has some greyish marks on his main doral fin and body areas so now thinking slime disease? he's also near the surface and heater a lot and has rapid gill movement another sign of slime / velvet right? now just behind his head on eaither side it's like he's lost weight upon further reading in here could this now be skinny / CWS?, he's also listing to one side and not swimming much more like paddling slowly, if it's CWS I can't seem to find what fellow members on here suggest as the cure because it's not available in Britain to my knowledge. He had clowdy eyes but today appear to be not as cloudy, also tail appears to be some what frayed / jagged at the ends rather than the sleek lines on my healthy Loach. I'm currently treating it as slime and have put slime mediaction in the tank yesterday.

As I say all my water levels are fine as I check daily for and signs of changes especially while they are sick. I feed them Tetra Variety Waffers, I do a water change every 2 weeks etc. and vacuum up the waste 2 to 3 times a week. Also the tank is a good size although yes fish stocks are low, the size tank is about 164 litres about 4 feet in width, 1 feet in depth and 1 1/2 feet in height. Tank has a Tetratec 700 under tank filter (currently with carbon out as per treatment guidelines), I have no living plants in there for now as I want the fish to get healthy first so only fake plants for now, 2 hiding places for them and the tank has an air stone.

I have enclosed some images to show what I'm what I'm trying to explain hope they appear ok and fellow loach owners could help me with.


Alage eather with discolouring and healthy CL


Sick CL


Another photo of sick CL


Both the sick fish.


Thanks for your time in reading and I hope someone can help me with what my problem/s could be.

Many thanks,

AJ.

[chefkeith]

Are you new to fish keeping?

I'd guess that they suffered from osmotic shock when you changed the water when you 1st got them. Fish that survive osmotic shock sometimes end up with bacterial problems, slimecoat problems, and fin/scale damage.

Are you adding anything to water, like salt?

Try treating the infected fish with antbiotic, such as Kanamycin. If this is parasitic, you might want to try Praziquantel and Flubenol or Levamisole also.

[bieksa_rocks]

Are you new to fish keeping?

I'd guess that they suffered from osmotic shock when you changed the water when you 1st got them. Fish that survive osmotic shock sometimes end up with bacterial problems, slimecoat problems, and fin/scale damage.

Are you adding anything to water, like salt?

Try treating the infected fish with antbiotic, such as Kanamycin. If this is parasitic, you might want to try Praziquantel and Flubenol or Levamisole also.

Thanks for the reply yes I'm totally new although I have been around helping my father in the past but I'm new to all the treatments, trying to figure what disease they have etc.

I'm not adding salt at the moment and to be honest didn't know I could / should when I hear salt as I say I'm a newb I think of marine aquariums lol. Is it any particular kind of salt I should use then I can figure out how much to add etc. and what it does to the fish / aquarium.

Thanks,

AJ.

[Diana]

Salt in this sense is sodium chloride.
Table salt, Kosher salt, pickling salt, aquarium salt...
but not the salt and mineral blend that is used to replicate sea water.

Salt has some distinct uses in a fresh water tank, but ought not to be added all the time.

If there is nitrite in the water salt will reduce the amount of nitrite crossing the gills and prevent brown blood disease. The dose for this is 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons (5 ml per 80 liters). I would probably do a slightly rounded teaspoon for Imperial gallons.

Salt can kill external parasites when it is used correctly.

Salt will raise the total dissolved solids in the water, and thus help with osmoregulatory issues the fish may be having. Moving fish to a new house, new set up, large water change when they had been neglected often creates osmotic problems for them. Such changes need to be done slowly, with plenty of water testing so that you know you are changing the water chemistry slow enough for the fish to adjust.

As the need for salt ends in a fresh water tank you will need to allow the salt level to go down slowly, such as by doing small (25%) water changes weekly. If the tank needs larger water changes because of nitrogen of any sort then you will need to add a smaller and smaller amounts of salt to the water change water for a couple of weeks so the level of salt does not drop too fast.

[chefkeith]

AJ,
I never said that you should add salt. I was just wondering if anything was added to the water, like salt. Salt is a no no under normal conditions.

I might not be able to answer any questions Today because I'll be leaving soon, but maybe someone else will be able to help. (Edit- Diana is already ahead of me. ):D

You never did mention anything specific about the water.

If there is a water chemistry issue, we'll need to know the tank and tap water parameters, such as the-
Nitrates
KH
GH
pH
TDS

When was the last time you did a water change and how large was it?
When you got the tank did you completely change all the water?

[bieksa_rocks]

AJ,
I never said that you should add salt. I was just wondering if anything was added to the water, like salt. Salt is a no no under normal conditions.

I might not be able to answer any questions Today because I'll be leaving soon, but maybe someone else will be able to help.

You never did mention anything specific about the water.

If there is a water chemistry issue, we'll need to know the tank and tap water parameters, such as the-
Nitrates
KH
GH
pH
TDS

When was the last time you did a water change and how large was it?
When you got the tank did you completely change all the water?

I did a water change about 5 days ago by about 40% after ending white spot treatment and restarting with the velvet / anti slime treatment from interpet, also adding in interpet fresh start for the new amount of water being added back in. When I took over the tank I did a complete re clean I fully emptied the tank, removed all the substrate and cleaned that all up also, clean all the ornaments like the caves and the rocks just with tape water and a tooth brush straight from the pack just washing it in water first.

When I had the tank set up again I retested for a few days to make sure all was fine before adding the few remaining fish back in.

Here are my parameters using Tetra Test 6in1 (not to sure what TDS is that you mention?)

Cl2 = 0

PH = 6 (I know this is slightly low for loaches have started to use PHAdjust from Nutrafin to raise it to around 7)

KH = 6

GH = between 6 and 16 as they only have 2 colours for the numbers

NO2 = 0

NO3 = 25


Yesterday and today the loach has been a bit more active, still has the indents just up behind it's eyes on his head, I have not see him eating since the move back to the main tank, he gets bumped easily by the other 2 fish and takes a few seconds if that to right himself, at night time he hovers close to the surface when the lights turn off.

Thanks for your continued replies, I've just bought some Koi Calm / Clove Oil just in case that step needs to be taken

[tender]

Hi!
Looking at the pics I`d say youre sick clown most definetely has some form of skinny disease. My experience is that the best course of action is anti-bacterial treatment with Maracyn 1 + 2 and an antiparasite drug like Levamisole or FLubendazole. I have yet to fail treating skinny with these meds. Kanamycln is another option instead of Maracyn. I know that these meds are difficult to get hold of in Britain (like in my country; Norway). So you might have to "risk" it and order it online. I get my Maracyn from petco.com and Flubendazole from plymouthdiscus.com (it`s called Kusuri Wormer Plus). In any case; my somewhat inexperienced opinion is that you need to get these meds quite soon. It will not go away by itself. If I`m wrong, I`m sure some of the experts here will correct me.

[bieksa_rocks]

My tank is now 1 less Loach, I'm afraid to say he didn't make it.

I bought some Sterazin from Waterlife off of the net and started using it Saturday, it's all I could find that is treatment that includes worms which I what I think causes Skinny / CWS, whether the stuff is any good or not, not to sure if anyone here has used it? it's a 5 course treatment, because I only did day one and now the Loach has died should I carry on with the treatment in full just in case it's still with in the tank?

This is just so damned annoying as I say the tank was in a horrible state that's why I took it over, I must have spent well over £150.00 in chemicals, treatments, testers etc. to get the tank back in to a good condition let alone time took me a few weekends to get it back up and running etc. I guess the fish are not used to good quality water anymore and were battle hardened for the poor climate they lived in, I'm kind wishing I just didn't bother now.

Anyways if someone could advise me on whether I should continue treatment, the last remaining loach looks in ok condition the algae eater still has the strange colouring. Once I know everything is ok with those two fish I'll re stock with 3 or 4 more new Loaches to keep the last one happy as I know they like to be in a group.


Thanks for your time.

AJ.

[Diana]

Keep up the treatment.
When one fish in a tank has parasites or disease then the organisms that cause that problem are all over the tank.
The stronger fish might take longer to show the symptoms, but they are infected. Treatment now, and continue to the end is the best way to reduce that level of infection.

Keep up the water changes, too. Many parasites fall to the bottom of the tank and are easy for bottom feeding fish to pick up again.

Do you have a test for ammonia?

Doing such a thorough cleaning job on every surface in the tank has highly likely disrupted the nitrifying bacteria.

I would not try to alter the pH. The GH and KH are fine.

TDS is Total Disolved Solids. It refers to everything that is dissolved in the water, such as minerals and salts.

[bieksa_rocks]

Thanks for the info Diana, yes I have a ammonia test kit I'll test that tonight and post the results I tested that about a week ago and all seemed fine, I'll continue the treatment thanks for the advice, I will also buy myself a TDS tester off of eBay or the LFS.


Thanks,

AJ.

[wilsonho]

How have these two fishes been?
Are they OK?

[bieksa_rocks]

Keep up the treatment.

Do you have a test for ammonia?

Came back as 0

How have these two fishes been?
Are they OK?

They seem to be fine both eating swimming around etc. where as the other loach wasn't

[helen nightingale]

sorry to hear of your loss. i hope the others do well in your care