First timer here, possible poorly Weatherfish/Dojo Loach...

[JamieNI]

First off, hello to all who read this

Ok, here's the situation.
My sisters friend recently moved house and left behind an old fish tank with some stones, plants and other ornaments etc, and she said I could come take the tank and do as I wish with it, and I wasn't about to turn down a free fish tank.. ahem Anywho, when I go to lift the tank out to the car this eel/catfish type badboy comes darting out of nowhere and apparently the girl who owned the tank before didn't even realise the little guy was living their. After doing quick research on the web it's definitely, in my mind, a dojo loach/weatherfish... has the same markings, body shape, colourations, barbels, about 8 'n a half to 9 inches long, it's got all the fins and everything.
I think they're might be something wrong with 'Kit' (named him/her Kit 'cos at first I thought it was a little catfish, so Kit the catfish lol) Most of the time he just floats in an almost question mark-like shape, if that makes any sense, then without warning he darts around like a madman 'sniffing' at the sides of the tank and around the little pebbles on the bottom of the tank then stops and returns to his question mark pose. I tried feeding him with the flakes I use to feed my goldfish but he doesn't seem interested or else he's munching when I'm not around. I even reached in a few times and gently touched him with my fingertip and to my great suprise he barely flinched!! (hehe Macho Loach ) I want to know if this is ordrinary behaviour or if there is something wrong with the little guy ?

Some info that may help with answers - I have NO IDEA how long he was left in the previous owners empty house for, the tank was asboslutey stinking when I got it, (gave it a real good clean tonight there) the tank itself is roughly 2feet long, 1foot wide and just under a foot in depth and the decorations consist of a bottom layer of small pebbles/stones, a couple of artificial plants, some biggish stones, a smallish log and a biggish log...there are no other fish in it.
The tank came with a working filter and light but the tank is currently outside in my yard due to space restrictions atm, and the only fishfood of any kind I have around atm is some ordinary goldfish flakes.
I've owned my current goldfish now for almost 7/8 years and I would love to keep Kit alive so any help or suggestions are more than welcome!!
Also, with regards to keeping him outside for the time being, it's very cold outside atm here.

Thanks for taking the time to read, cheers,
Jamie.

[Diana]

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/we ... licaudatus

Welcome to Loaches, Jaimie

Great of you to take such good care of a surprise fish!

I have linked the species info about your new fish. As you can see, they do not mind cold, as long as it does not freeze. They thrive in a room temperature tank, and make good tank mates for Goldfish.

I am sure you are aware that a 2' long tank is not big enough for a fish this size. Generally something about 4' long is better. 3' might work, though there is not much room in there for friends.

They are social fish, and really perk up when there are more of them.

Good for doing a thorough job of cleaning the old tank, but I wonder if the beneficial bacteria are still OK? Was the filter running when you picked up the tank? Did you throw away or clean with bleach the filter media? (bacteria will die)
Fish produce a lot of waste that is handled by good bacteria that live in the filter, and other places in the tank. By being too thorough with the cleaning it is possible to kill these bacteria. Then the fish waste (especially ammonia) can reach toxic levels really fast.

The sort of hanging thing the Loach is doing is not too common, but some Loaches are weird, and will do odd stuff. It is not unknown to be able to stroke a fish, but usually it takes a little longer for the fish to learn to trust something as big as a hand in its tank.

What I would do now:
1) If you have test kits that you can use for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate use them to monitor what is going on in the tank. If either ammonia or nitrite show do enough water changes to keep the ammonia under .25 ppm and the nitrite under 1 ppm. If you do not have test kits, then I would be changing the water frequently just in case. 10%-25% per day might be required if you can read ammonia in the water.
2) Share some media from the goldfish's filter if you think the beneficial bacteria are dead in the Loach's filter.
3) Look around for a large enough tank for both your fish. With 1 Goldfish and 1 Dojo Loach, I would think a 35-40 gallon tank would be the smallest I would try. Goldfish get very large and can be very messy. Since both species can be social I would rather use a larger tank and get a couple more of each.

[JamieNI]

Hello Diana, thanks for the warm welcome ...and the little link for the info on the Loaches.

The filter was not running when I picked the tank up, and when I turned it on when I got back it was coughing and spluttering and a tiny tiny trickle of water was coming out the end the filtered water comes out. I took it apart and it was filthy, completely caked in a dark brown jellatin (sp) like substance so I completely cleaned it from top to bottom...now after reading your comment I think I might have wiped out all bacteria, good and bad
Also, I had no idea the tank Kit is in would be too small, (my knowledge and expertise of aqaurims/pet fish etc only goes as far as keeping my Goldfish all these years) so do you think it would be benificial to move him into the big tank with the Goldfish, it's almost 3 times as big ?
Another point to add is that I've never used filtration of any kind in my Goldfish tank, just regulary kept water clean judging by eye alone, so there is no other good bacteria to share with 'ol Kit.

On another note, I went out this morning to check on him and feed him some more and he seems to have stopped his question mark vogue pose's hehe maybe it was a little shock to his little system being moved around from the old house, to my yard, then to his tank being cleaned and stuff ?

[Diana]

Sounds like the question mark pose was indeed simply due to the changes.

If the filter was not running when you picked it up, then assume all the nitrifying bacteria are dead. They need a constant source of oxygen and ammonia. This only comes to them when the filter is functioning well, circulating the water. Good to clean it out as thoroughly as you did.

Given that you only have the one filter, I would put the Dojo and the Gold together in the larger tank, and put this filter on that tank. Make sure that neither of the fish come up to the surface and gasp for air. It is common for either of these species to take a quick bite of air, then sink back down into the tank. This is OK. Hovering right under the surface and constantly gulping air is a sign that there is not enough oxygen in the water. Oxygen only enters the water at the surface, and does not get very far into the tank by itself. You would need to increase the amount of water movement in the tank to better circulate the water that has oxygen from the surface. If you have the filter running well, it should really help, but might not be enough.

Here is a quick run down of the nitrogen cycle:
Fish produce waste. Mostly ammonia. (Goldfish are notorious for producing high levels of ammonia). Ammonia is toxic to the fish, burning the gills and the tender tissue between the fins.
Several species of bacteria remove the ammonia from the water and turn it into nitrite.
Nitrite is toxic to the fish. It crosses the gills, enters the blood and causes Brown Blood Disease, when the blood cannot carry enough oxygen.
Several species of bacteria remove nitrite from the water and turn it into nitrate.
Nitrate is less toxic, but can build up to toxic levels because the bacteria that remove it do not grow well in well oxygenated water. Water changes are the way to remove nitrate.

Here is what will happen to any tank that has fish but a low level (or no) nitrifying bacteria:
First few days: Ammonia will rise. Test the water and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia under .25 ppm.
About the end of the first week: Nitrite will start showing up.
Do enough water changes to keep the nitrite under 1 ppm.
The bacteria that remove ammonia grow pretty fast, and start producing nitrite faster than the other group of bacteria can remove it. Stay on top of the water quality, testing and water changing as long as it takes. Might get so bad you will be doing daily water changes.
Eventually both populations of bacteria will grow to the point that ammonia and nitrite always read 0 ppm, and the nitrates are rising. Might be 6-8 weeks. Do enough water changes to keep the nitrate under 20 ppm.

If you can add any of the correct species of bacteria to the tank to boost the population the cycle will go faster, and the levels not rise quite so high.
If you have gravel or sand in the Goldfish tank, and do not sterilize it with each water change then there will be a pretty good bacteria population in that gravel. It is just enough to handle the waste from the goldfish, though, and needs to grow to handle the waste from the new fish. Test and do water changes to keep the ammonia <.25 ppm and nitrite <1ppm.
There are a few products on the market that may help: Dr. Tim's One and Only is one, Tetra Safe Start is the other. These two products have the correct nitrifying bacteria. Other 'bacteria in a bottle' products do not.

Do you have any information about what kind of filter it is? Sometimes the name of the filter is printed on the top, and more info might be available under the motor. Lets see how many gallons per hour this filter moves.

What are the actual dimensions of the 2 tanks that you have? Use any units, just be sure to label them.

[JonasBygdemo]

Having a lot of fast-growing plants will help with the nitrate-levels.

[JamieNI]

Thanks for the reply Jonas, I'll look into it mate Maybe just stick with the artificials for now until I build up some experience.

Well, I moved Kit into my room and he's been there almost 4 days now and everything 'SEEMS' (lol) to be going ok. He's eating regulary, seems pretty active at times and sometimes he'll even just sit on his little resting-rock and just stare at me, I swear he's trying to have a stare-out competition with me hehe
I have a few queries though, starting with some little dark, what I can only describe as, furry fibres growing on one of the logs in the tank, and along the edges of the artificial plants there is little fibres of again what I can only describe as white fur ? The filter has been running and circulating water since I've moved him in here and I've tried my hardest not to overfeed or interfere with the water (apart from a few little water changes), could this be a fungal or bacterial problem or..?

He's still in the smaller tank at the minute as I just dont have the space or cash to upgrade atm, and the bigger goldfish tank met an almost grisly end...the top of the water iced over as its very cold outside here atm and when breaking the ice my sister managed to put a crack right the way up the side of the tank, so Kit is going to have to stay where he is for a little while longer...but it's better than no tank/filtertration at all I suppose.
Also, as I mentioned with the money issues, I wont have a water testing kit or any dechlorinator (sp) or anything for a while so would regular small water changes be reccomended or.. ? The water is absolutely fine atm, no cloudiness or murkyness, and everything else seems nice and fresh apart from said furry bits above lol
Another question, what is 'gravel vaccuming' or siphoning ? I've read it a few times and would like to know how I actually go about it.

Two more questions (I know, I'm sorry lol I've more questions than a police officer ) Sometimes Kit will sort of wig out and start flying around the tank feeling around at the gravel and along and up and down the sides of the tank, and occassionaly he will come up for what seems like a gulp of air, is this normal or am I, or more importantly, is Kit missing something ? ...and lastly should I keep my filter submerged just below the surface or should it be just above the water so the nozzle is creating bubbles and that soothing trickling/running water noise ?

I fully appreciate all replies and help as I'm growing really attached to this little guy and it would be a real downer if he died or grew poorly.

[Diana]

some little dark, what I can only describe as, furry fibres growing on one of the logs in the tank, and along the edges of the artificial plants there is little fibres of again what I can only describe as white fur ?
The black fibers are probably a form of algae called Black Brush Algae. They cling really well, difficult to remove. Not really unsightly, in my opinion, but most aquarium keepers do not like it. It is growing because there is nitrogen (ammonia most likely) and light available. You can scrape it off the wood if you do not like it.
The white fibers are more likely a fungus. Algae (even the ones that look weird colors) have chlorophyll, and will not be pure white. Fungus does not have chlorophyll and will live on dead matter such as fallen food, driftwood or similar things. This also can be removed from the wood with a bit of a brushing (I use a plastic brush so as not to damage the wood). Neither will hurt the tank or the fish. in fact, the algae is removing some of the ammonia from the water.


Uh oh! Crack in the tank Is your Goldfish OK?
I did not understand that the Goldfish was in an outdoor tank. It would not have been a good idea to have moved Kit outside into such cold water when he is used to being in room temperature water.

money issues, I wont have a water testing kit or any dechlorinator
Chlorine or chloramine added to the tap water is a toxin to the fish. This makes it a real dilemma as far as doing water changes.
Get a report from the water company, or just call them. If they use chlorine, not chloramine then here is how you can handle this:
1) Run some water into a bucket.
2) Let it sit overnight, stir it whenever you can. Put it in as warm a place as you can.
Chlorine can leave the water in about 24-48 hours. Warmth and stirring the water helps.
3) Then use this water for water changes.
If the water company used chloramines then you really do have to go get some dechlor. Chloramine does not break down or leave the water like chlorine does. If you left it sitting for a week or two, maybe. This is a deadly poison to fish. I have added a little bit of water with chloramine to a tank with fish, and they are OK if it is very little. (maximum of 10% of the tank volume, and not repeated for a long time)
I am afraid the ammonia and nitrite is probably building up in the tank. Can you take some water to a pet store? Some will test the water for free. Buy some dechlor that will also neutralize ammonia. Prime is a very good one, the dose is very small, so even the smallest bottle will last a long time.

would regular small water changes be reccomended or.. ? The water is absolutely fine atm, no cloudiness or murkyness, and everything else seems nice and fresh apart from said furry bits above lol
You cannot see ammonia, nitrite or chloramine in the water. Cloudy water is not dangerous. Clear water with clear toxins can be dangerous.

Another question, what is 'gravel vaccuming' or siphoning ? I've read it a few times and would like to know how I actually go about it.
Water will flow uphill over the edge of the tank, then downhill through a tube. If one end of the tube is moved around through the gravel that is commonly used in aquariums the debris among the gravel will be removed as the water flows. The other end is in a bucket to catch the water and debris. There are special tubes made to suck out the water and debris yet allow the gravel to sink back down into the tank. Any sort of tube will work, though.
Here is a link to one form of a gravel vacuum.:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... catid=3889


Two more questions Better lots of questions than to not understand things! Sometimes Kit will sort of wig out and start flying around the tank feeling around at the gravel and along and up and down the sides of the tank, and occassionaly he will come up for what seems like a gulp of air, is this normal or am I, or more importantly, is Kit missing something ?
This is completely normal. These fish can have sudden bursts of energy like that, and may fly around the tank for several minutes or half an hour. They do gulp a little air. They can get some oxygen out of the air they gulp. It does not mean the water is bad.


...and lastly should I keep my filter submerged just below the surface or should it be just above the water so the nozzle is creating bubbles and that soothing trickling/running water noise ?
I do not know what kind of filter this is, so cannot offer any advise. Can you read any name or any information anywhere on the filter? Can you take a picture of it and post it here? (to post here I think you have to put the picture on a picture hosting site then link it here.

[JamieNI]

Hello Diana, again thank you for the detailed reply.

As far as the algae and fungus, do you think it would be better to keep it there for a while to help with nitrogen/ammonia levels until I get some testing kits and that ?
Yeah the Goldfish are fine, they've been through the harshest of Northern Irelands weathers outside for over 8 years now and are still healthy and going strong, very very very hardy Goldfish
Hmmmm, the Chlorine/Chloramine dilemna is a nasty one I'm visiting a local pet shop tomorrow so I'll see if they will test some tank water, and also I'll give the local waterboard a ring and find out exactly what it is they're adding to our tap water.

I checked the filter Diana and this is the exact one thats currently running..

http://www.ukpetsupplies.com/Details.as ... rodId=3434

[JamieNI]

Also, would it be worth my while buying the following products when I get the chance ?

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA2570.htm

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA2569.htm

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA4113.htm

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA4117.htm

There is one of these stores close by, but I'd rather hear an experienced opinion before I part with my money I'm guessing as well that those labs and solutions for the water aren't one-time use kind of things ?

[Diana]

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA2535.htm

Rather than get each test separately look into the pricing of getting the tests this way.
Ammonia and Nitrite are needed only while the tank is cycling, then later if a problem comes up, but not regularly. You will probably use up half or 2/3 of the ammonia and nitrite tests in this kit if the tank is still cycling. If the store will test the water for you, and the first sample shows no ammonia or nitrite, then skip these. The tank is probably cycled.
Nitrate will be used regularly. This is the one that you will use up and then buy more of. No matter what the test in the store shows, get a nitrate test.
pH will be used for a while until you get the feel for how the tap water changes through the year, but you may not need to buy a replacement, once the first bottle is finished. If you do find problems (tap water varies too much) then you might buy this more often to make sure the tap water is OK. If the water company says the water is very stable year round, then skip this one.

Note: these suggestions are based on the bare minimum to get by with if you are on a strict budget. It is assuming that the store will do some tests, so that if an emergency happens you can run a sample down to the store to check the ammonia and pH.
It is much better to have the test kits at home, because in my experience an emergency rarely happens when the store is open to test the water, and the time it takes to get down to the store is better spent in doing some remedial action, if you only knew what to do (based on tests). Often the best remedial action in case of emergency is a pretty big water change, for which dechlorinator is required.

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CA2540.htm
Here is a good gravel cleaner. The small one is OK for tanks up to about 10 gallons (40 liters) the medium is better for 10 gallons up to perhaps 50 gallons (40-200 liters) and the largest might work for tanks as small as 30 gallons (120 liters) but is better for tanks from around 40 gallons and up (160+ liters)

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... 204015.htm
This product contains the actual species of nitrifying bacteria you need in the aquarium. If your test shows any ammonia or nitrite, then get this one. If the old filter did have some surviving bacteria they might be handling the ammonia and nitrite.

Here is the dechlorinator I use. The local water has chloramine added, and when a dechlorinator splits the chlorine-ammonia bond it releases chlorine and ammonia to the water. This product locks up both the chlorine and the ammonia.
If there is excess ammonia during cycling then this product can lock up that, too.
This product has none of the slime coat enhancers found in so many similar products. Healthy fish produce plenty of slime coat without irritants to make more, or goo that coats their gills.
This product does not lock up heavy metals. If this is a problem with your water then you may want another product, or two separate products.
This product has no vitamins, electrolytes or other things. I feed my fish a nice rotation of foods.
Take this description to your local store and see what you can get.
Here in the USA this is one of the least expensive products because it does not have all those useless ingredients.

http://clearpond.com/Merchant2/merchant ... Code=CBUST
Quote from the site:
"Chloramine Buster is a specially developed triple action compound that has the capability to separate the chlorine / ammonia molecule from the ammonia molecule and render the chlorine harmless, while at the same time reduce the “free ammonia” to safe levels for aquatic life (.025 or less). In established ponds Chloramine Buster may also be used to reduce ammonia where levels are high or toxic, whether or not chloramines or chlorine is in the water. "

I looked at the site you linked and all the dechlorinators also had all the other useless stuff added. These unneeded things can increase the cost of a product by as much as 10 times.
Note that several of the products you linked are intended for marine tanks, not fresh water.

[turtleguy146]

Most large, chain-pet stores will check your water for free. I have managed to keep fish for about a decade without buying a testing kit... It gets a little rude during cycling though. I have gotten to know most of the people at the stores I frequently visit, and I always find something small that i could use, so they don't mind, but it may be best if you bounce between a couple if you are not going to be buying something or know the people.

[JamieNI]

Hello folks, long time no post.

Something is wrong with Kit!! I think he's damaged his swim bladder, he cant keep himself on the bottom, everytime he stops swimming he just floats to the top and does not look happy one bit. He'll swim about then when he stops or tries to lay on the bottom he just floats right back to the top and has no control over it! His stomach looks slightly bigger than usual and his anus is protuding slightly...am I going to lose my little buddy ? :(

Please help A.S.AP!! All help greatly appreciated!

[JamieNI]

Happy Days!! He was hiding in his little cave for a while after he figured out he wouldn't float to the top under there...amazing how they can be so smart when they're stressed out...and I carried out a small water change and put in a little extra de-chlorinator as it claims to have a calming, stress reducing pure herbal extract, and it seems to have done the trick! He's swimming around normally now and seems ok... fingers crossed. I'll keep an eye on him.

[cider]

Hi Jamie,
Sorry I am a semi-newbie so I was not able to help during your discovery of Kit and the problems which followed , however , I was following the posts and your last said he is fine. So good to hear that , wonder how he is doing? Has he settled in yet and have you discovered his favorite food yet?
Wish you well with him...keep us posted
Thanks, Cider

[JamieNI]

Hi Cider, thanks for the post and well-wishes

It's been 4 days now since that incident and Im releaved and pleased to say thats he's fine. I was pouring some fresh water into the tank at the time and he came up real close and I'm thinking now that he swallowed some bubbles and had trapped air inside him or something...not 100% sure though.
As for the foods he decimates anything and everything that comes in contact with the aqaurium water, including my fingers! lol for a fish that I found recently in less-than-ideal conditions and taking into accounts the enviroment changes he has went through he sure isnt shy or timid! Although in saying that I think he has a soft spot for goldfish flakes because when I found the little dude that's the only food I had around, and he was fed nothing but that for almost a week, possibly even two until I could get to a pet store.
I got a couple of goldfish companions for him also as he seemed awful lonely in there by himself and now when I try to feed my goldfish they're lucky if they get 2 or 3 flakes in before Kit comes zooming outa nowhere eating everything in sight haha he must a nightmare to live with when its dinner time