Ich?

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loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:14 pm

50 water change, redosing tonight and adding the heater.

4 days in.

Fish are looking better, less dots, less flashing. How long should i keep this up for?

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Thanks again all. I actually have a digital YSI D.O. probe thanks to my line of work and can easily monitor the dissolved oxygen content easily. I have two filters for the tank, so I'm simply employing the "splash method" to keep my D.O. up. I left the filter baffles in to reduce the current which is just way to much if I don't leave them in. If I notice a D.O. drop I'll add a supplemental system to increase water movement.

Tonight I did a 50% water change of 25 gallons (55 gallon tank - short approximately 5 gal total to increase filter "splash") and retreated with 25ML of the API ich treatment (50% dose) as if I was on day 1 of treatment. I also added an adjustable heater and currently have the temperature set at 84F. I also purchased a glass thermometer - but the dang thing doesn't work. Didn't notice it at the store, but to put it simply it's read out is wrong. I'll return it tomorrow and get a proper one to make sure the Aqueon heater, and my setting, is correct... I've read they're notoriously wrong. Would you all push it past 84F, keeping in mind the tank is heavily planted (mostly crypts.)

Thank you all again for taking the time to read and make suggestions :)

Bas Pels
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: Ich?

Post by Bas Pels » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:31 am

@ how long

Ich has a cycle, after leaving the fish it takes 24 hrs to produce spores which, depending on the species, might live for 72 hrs before they die.

Assuming the spores need time to develop into a white spot after finding a fish, I would say - about a week after the last spot disappeared.

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:23 pm

Less spots again today, a few loaches are are still flashing. I have to say my biggest of the 3 yoyos looks healthier and fatter than ever and isn't flashing, the two zebras look great too. The angelicus are the ones with visible spots and still flashing. They are eatting though and playing. Bought a working thermometer today have have inched the heater up to 84. I put the thermometer on the bottom, near the biggest cave complex where most of the loaches live and play. Everyone ate tonight, except the cherry barbs. They look stressed, are holding near the surface in a group, which is off for them without a doubt. Frankly, and this may sound harsh, but I don't care as much about them as I do the loaches.

My means to an end here is to save the loaches. Tomorrow is a 50% water change, retreat, and bump the temp to 86. The rest of the fish, aside from a few spots, and the plants all look fine. At this point the gravel in my tank doesn't have any material in it. When I vacuum I can't see any debris coming up. Tomorrow during the water change I plan to focus more on siphoning more off the plants and just off the surface of the gravel to try and pick up as much ich that may be "dusted" on the surface. For curiosity sake tomorrow I'll also disinfect my DO probe, that I use in ponds, and check the tanks DO parameter.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Wish me and the loaches luck :)

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:46 pm

Update. Very busy day and regrettably couldn't get around to changing the water and retreating. I suspect 1 day missed in the cycle won't be the end of the world. Tomorrow it will be top priority when I get home. 1 of my small yoyo's simply looks bad. I'm afraid he will not make it. Tomorrow, I will probably euthanize him.

I digitally checked the water temperatures and D.O. today after disinfecting my YSI meter, and had a reading of 85.9F. Dissolved oxygen levels through out the water column were around the 4.7-5.1ppm range depending on where I checked.. Considering how warm the water is, and how small the fish are, I consider this more than acceptable. No fish show signs D.O. stress, even large fish wouldn't be stressed at this level assuming of course they were warm water fish species.

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 pm

Finally got the kids to sleep, gonna go change the water now.

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:24 am

Euthanized 3 of the stressed out cherry barbs this morning. Previously they just looked stressed from the heat, this morning they were covered in ich worse than any fish i had seen in the tank.

This ich is a pain in the butt!!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Ich?

Post by Diana » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:29 pm

Ich can often hide in the gills.
The stressed Cherry Barbs, hanging at the surface may have had Ich in their gills, so were having problems breathing.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:19 pm

So today is day 8 of treatments and i still have ich.

I purchased Seachem Paragaurd and am going to try thier regiment after tonights 50% water change and after running the water through some activated carbon.

I'm going to stop reading up on ich, and just stick with your alls advice. There is so much stuff out there and everyones an "expert"

Lets assume its day one, since im starting over so to speak.... here are the facts:

55gal established, heavily planted tank. Water temp 86, two AquaClear 70s, 2 golden zebra loach, 3 angelicus loach, and 3 yoyos, and one fan tail goldfish. 1 yoyo is on deaths door and most are flashing. Only the angelicus have visable spots. Aside from the yoyo whos about to doe, everyone else eats eaglerly.

What would you do? Again, assume its day 1.

As always thankyou !!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Ich?

Post by Diana » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:56 pm

With any treatment:
Maintain the highest temperature the fish are comfortable with. Good water movement to ensure highest oxygen levels. The more water changes the better.
Remember that at the beginnings of any treatment there are already tiny Ich on the fish that you cannot see. In the first few days these Ich will grow to the point that you can see them. They were in the water before you added medicine, and got under the fish's slime coat. Now you are seeing them as they grow. However, if you are still seeing new Ich on the fish after the first few days of treatment then that treatment did not kill them. That treatment is supposed to have killed the Ich while they were still in the water.

Here are 2 possible treatments:

Kordon Rid Ich, 50% of their labeled dose in the AM, 50% in the evening (12 hours apart).
Every other day vacuum the bottom of the tank. Dose the meds after vacuuming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternate treatment, DO NOT COMBINE with above:
UV sterilizer and salt (sodium chloride)
Day 1:
Big water change, emphasizing bottom vacuuming. Especially get into any holes, under logs and anywhere there might be slower water flow. (Ich may settle out in these spots, and many Loaches like hiding in such places.)
1 teaspoon salt per 10 gallons tank volume. Dissolve the salt in water and pour it in over several hours.

Day 2:
1 teaspoon per 10 gallons tank volume. Dissolve the salt in water and pour it in over several hours.

Day 3:
Big water change (same as above)
Add to replacement water: salt at the rate of 2 teaspoons per 10 gallons.
Add more salt to the tank at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons tank volume. Dissolve the salt in water and pour it in over several hours.

Day 4 and beyond:
Every other day water changes as above. Add salt to replacement water at the rate of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
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Ancient Chinese remedy:
Move fish to new water every day, throwing away old water.
This works on the principal of getting rid of the Ich before it can land on the fish.
Kind of difficult to do with a large tank, though.
Variation: Move the fish to a bare bottomed hospital tank and vacuum the floor of the tank daily, with whatever medicine you want to use. It might take more than one tank to hold all the fish. This might be an advantage; you could make one tank a higher temperature but lower dose of medicine (for the Loaches) and another tank lower temperature but more salt or higher medicine dose (for the goldfish)
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:30 pm

Great insight Diana, regarding the ones growing to visibility and me observing it as a "new infection" when all along it was just maturing to the point of being visable.

I loaded some pantyhose with a bunch of activated carbon and let it run for several hours today to remove as much API Super Ich as possible.

Did a 50% water change after a few hours of the activated carbon treatment, the gravel is clean and produces hardly any debris, then dosed the incoming water with Prime.

I lowered the water temperature to 84.... The 1 yoyo that was bad off died today and I removed him :cry: . The 2 golden zebras are loving life, the 2 other yoyos are kicking butt too, looking a little chubby. The 2 of angelicus are in hiding somewhere for the past few days. 1 of the 3, who stills comes out to eat would start to eat blood worms but spit them out, move on to another worm, and do the same thing... he's the one I can see the ich on. I didn't see him munch a single one down :cry: This is why I lowered the temperature, they clearly don't like this whole situation. I have no idea how the other two angelicus are doing.

If anyone cares, the fantail goldfish is perfectly fine, he's my son favorite and important to me in that sense. He is annoyingly large and bossy when he feeds, but the other fish don't really care about him other than him being a swimming tank.

After dinner with the family, I did a 50% dose of Seachem Paraguard. Tomorrow I'll start doing 100% doses and keep a close eye on everyone to see if anyone is stressed from it and do the appropriate actions if needed.

I'm compelled to purchase Seachem Metroplex/Focus to medicate their food to amp the treatment. I am very frustrated right now.

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:53 pm

no deaths since implantation of Paragaurd. Ich is still calling the tank home. Dosing as full strength now, loaches don't seem to mind.

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:56 pm

Day 3 of full dose Paragaurd treatment, happy to report there are very few visable ich spots now. I had to look very hard today, only saw 2 maybe 3.

Ill keep pressing on, fish are doing okay!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Ich?

Post by Diana » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 pm

Looks like you are winning!
Continue the medicine until at least a week after you find the last Ich on the fish. This makes sure the Ich has had a chance to go through its life cycle to the time when they are vulnerable to the medicine.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

loachnoob
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Ich?

Post by loachnoob » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:13 am

Definatley! Found two new dots on a fish today thatni didnt see yesterday, just developing preexisiting spots obviously.

Appreiciate the support!!

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