*Blasted whitespot*

[mickthefish]

ive just read your post on velvet ashleigh, this disease was not known to us about 8-10 yrs ago or more recently, the way it multiplies and the speed it does it at still suggests it's a form of velvet, and little is known of the diseases especially from india.

mick

[Ashleigh]

I personally do not agree with this being velvet; this looks like the past cases I have had over the past 7ish years. Either way, treatment is seeming to be more or less the same for both, just with velvet recomended lights off. Il be sticking with salt for now till Mon when I will revise the situation.

Does anyone else have their thoughts on whether this is velvet or whitespot???


Ashleigh

[chefkeith]

This is a classic case of ich.

Oodinium parasites or velvet disease is very difficult to see.

[mickthefish]

i agree with you chefkeith the usual stuff that is, when i breed nothobranchius i can more or less say that the fry at some stage of developement will get velvet, but caught quick it is easily cured.
but whatever this is thats come mainly from india it's a virulent form that the normal cures can't touch.

mick

[chefkeith]

My last post lacked a description of velvet disease. I hope this post helps.

In the early stages of velvet disease individual spots can't be easily seen. In the advanced stages, velvet looks like a patch of gold brown dust or powder.
In the early stages of ich there are definable white spots. In the advanced stages of ich, it looks like a rash of white bumps.

The size of the velvet trophont spot ranges from .05 mm to .1 mm.
The size an ich trophont spot ranges from .2mm to 1 mm.
In comparison, the smallest ich spot will be 2x the size of the largest velvet spot.
Velvet has the consistency of powdered sugar, while ich has the consistency of table salt.

Velvet probably doesn't migrate by itself into an aquarium environment, which might be why it is difficult to diagnose. If the fish were infected with velvet parasites, then they were likely to be infected with other parasites, like ich also.


a few sources-
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/h ... tist.shtml
http://www.fishvet.com/Oodinium.pdf

[shari2]

mick, can you tell us more about the progression/appearance of what you experienced and the testing that resulted in the diagnosis? Do you have any pics?

If there's a velvet strain out there that does present with symptoms similar to ick and is resistant to treatment, I would like to know about it. Especially if the usual treatments seem to be ineffective. How many others who have failed to save their fish by using the common treatments for ick could have benefited by knowing there might be something else to consider treating for if they find ich treatment not working?

[Ashleigh]

Quick update on the loaches today (Il post pic's later). The spots have now more or less half disappeared. The most badly infected tetra; it appeared to only go for this one has half the number of spots and is looking quite a bit happier.
The clown I posted a pic of has less spots, Id say about a third It seems to be working. There is still some obvious irritation; flicking etc but it is not so often or as aggressive as it was before, hardly any spots on the fish apart from the main ones targeted the worst, clamping is alot less aswell so it would appear they feel a bit more comfortable.
Uv should arrive tomorrow so hopefully it can get to work on the rest of what has not infected the fish if there is any.

Happy days


Ashleigh

[mvigor]

This is how I understand it:

When the parasites fall off the fish they are alive and they go to live in the substrate. There they multiply into hundreds of free swimmers each.

When they mature in the gravel, hatch open, and release their free-swimmers--trying to find a fishy host again--that is the vulnerable point where the salt or heat can kill them.

If you indeed have enough salt in the tank, you should only see LESS white spots from this point forward, because the free-swimmers will die before they attach to anything alive.

[Ashleigh]

This is how I understand it:

When the parasites fall off the fish they are alive and they go to live in the substrate. There they multiply into hundreds of free swimmers each.

When they mature in the gravel, hatch open, and release their free-swimmers--trying to find a fishy host again--that is the vulnerable point where the salt or heat can kill them.

If you indeed have enough salt in the tank, you should only see LESS white spots from this point forward, because the free-swimmers will die before they attach to anything alive.

Yes I know that, I have delt with white spot before. The problem with this time was that I did not want to use any chemical treatments, hense the post. I am well aware of the like cycle of this parasite. The UV is on order and will be added to the tank asap to take care of any free swimming little *things* (I can think of alot more to call them ) that have managed to avoid the salt treatment.

Ashleigh

[Ashleigh]

Well bad new last night and this morning. One of the younger loaches had passed away, and this morning the other two I had were gone, seems they were to weak to pull through.
More spots have started to appear, so Im going to scrap the salt and try malachite green. 50% water change tonight and then Il start doses at half. Removing one filter and putting it in a spare tank, adding ammonia to try and keep it cycled cause Im guessing this is going to cause a bit of a crash in my bb. Got external media in another tank already cycling and have spoken to a shop in Rhyl allowing me some of their cycled media off display tanks should I need any. I really this isn't the start of the fish being picked off one by one

Ashleigh

[shari2]

Ashleigh, I think rather than the malachite you should consider mick's suggestion. Try the interpet 7 anti velvet and slime treatment.
If it were ich the salt should have done the trick. You may want to consider the possibility you aren't facing ich - though I know it looks like it.

Mick - it would really help if you could tell us more about your experience.

[Ashleigh]

I have a feeling the salt is causing the fish to die off; fish that are not infected are starting to die off. There was another one dead today when the bf was doing the water change.
I cannot get interpet until next week-pet store around here is out until their order next Thur. The only thing I have is malachite green; do I treat of not????

Ashleigh

[Emma Turner]

Ashleigh, you know if you are really stuck, you can always ring Steve at the shop tomorrow and pay for some treatment via card over the phone. We can then post it out to you first class (post office is just up the road from the shop), which should mean it arrives Tues.

Emma

[Ashleigh]

Im debating taking the day off tomorrow and driving up to the next place that has it, its a good 2hrs away and in ment to be in uni al day . Fish are dropping like flies at the moment so I guess something has to be done.
I have been thinking it might be worth taking scrapings from any dead fish and having a look, the equipment is there and that may identify the problem..... although all dead fish have been disposed off so thats only saying if another one dies which I really hope they don't.
I may just take you up on your offer Emma if I don't get something sorted by 12.

Ashleigh

[Ashleigh]

OK what about 'PROTOZIN'? I have used products by waterlife on the parents goldies before and was inpressed with results. I can get hold of this tomorrow so treatment could start asap.

Any thoughts???

Ashleigh