Hey guys- I have had three clowns for a while now in a 55 gallon aquarium. They are beautiful: plump, active, dark black and vibrant orange. Here is where the trouble begins: I just got three more 2" clowns. One of them (I picked him specifically because he has a spot on his side) has been trouble from day one. He seemed fine in at my LFS - good coloring, active, etc. But now he is skinny, has an absolutely insatiable appetite and I believe he is eating my neon tetras. Why do I think that? I came home one day and he was actively and excitedly biting the tail of a neon he had disabled. I tried to save the little guy in my hospital tank but "spot" had chewed most of the little neon's tail away.
From my research, it seems the most likely culprit is some sort of parasite. Spot is an incredibly active, energetic fish and he eats like there is no tomorrow. I think that eliminates ich or a bacterial infection.
My question is: do I treat the entire tank with levamisole hydrochloride (as is suggested elsewhere) or give spot back to the store? They said they would "take care of him." I think they mean they will kill him- which makes me sad. But what if the medicine kills my other loaches?!?!? Also, could this parasite already be incubating in my other loaches- in which case should I treat the entire tank anyway and keep the little booger?
Here is a little detail I think I should mention: at the same time I picked up the 3 new loaches, I got 1 juvenile (about 2.5") discus. I have read that discus' will also eat neons; but I caught spot in the act so he is the primary suspect.....
So, any help would be greatly appreciated as I am a little scared to go down the lavamisole route... suggestions?
Thanks,
peterthefish
Big trouble: little clown loach
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peterthefish
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tattooedgemini
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Emma Turner
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Hi Peter,
A clown loach would not hunt down and try to kill neon tetras, it is more likely that the neon was either ill or had firstly been attacked by something else before the clown loach started being inquisitive.
Can you post any pics of the affected clown? Does it looked 'pinched in' behind the head area? It would be a very good idea to treat for Chronic Wasting Syndrome ASAP with either Levamisole hydrochloride or Flubendazole. Personally, if none of the other fish have been dewormed before, I would treat the whole tank.
Discus are not the best choice to keep with clowns, as the lively nocturnal behaviour from the loaches really can spook the discus, which coupled with their inquisitive nature, really can cause the discus major stress. Plus unless you have a huge tank (a 55 is not huge) then you can't provide defined areas of high flow for the loaches and slow flow for the discus.
Emma
A clown loach would not hunt down and try to kill neon tetras, it is more likely that the neon was either ill or had firstly been attacked by something else before the clown loach started being inquisitive.
Can you post any pics of the affected clown? Does it looked 'pinched in' behind the head area? It would be a very good idea to treat for Chronic Wasting Syndrome ASAP with either Levamisole hydrochloride or Flubendazole. Personally, if none of the other fish have been dewormed before, I would treat the whole tank.
Discus are not the best choice to keep with clowns, as the lively nocturnal behaviour from the loaches really can spook the discus, which coupled with their inquisitive nature, really can cause the discus major stress. Plus unless you have a huge tank (a 55 is not huge) then you can't provide defined areas of high flow for the loaches and slow flow for the discus.
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
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peterthefish
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- Location: Pasadena
Thanks for the replies guys!
Emma, I will try to get a pic of Spot up but it looks consistent with chronic wasting syndrome and, yes, he is pinched in behind the head. Can anyone point me to a good source for either product? My LFS does not carry either of them. I am in the LA area... I will drive long distances for my fish. I have found Levamisole online but there is huge variety: powders, liquids, tablets, solutions.... What have you guys used successfully in the past? And dosing guidelines (that have been used successfully) would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Peterthefish
Emma, I will try to get a pic of Spot up but it looks consistent with chronic wasting syndrome and, yes, he is pinched in behind the head. Can anyone point me to a good source for either product? My LFS does not carry either of them. I am in the LA area... I will drive long distances for my fish. I have found Levamisole online but there is huge variety: powders, liquids, tablets, solutions.... What have you guys used successfully in the past? And dosing guidelines (that have been used successfully) would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Peterthefish
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peterthefish
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- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:46 pm
- Location: Pasadena
Also: while discus and clown loaches may not be optimal tank mates, our discus seems pretty happy and I have seen successful tanks online with both. I have an Eheim 2217 providing a solid current on the right side of the tank and some slower current in the back and left. There will also soon be a bunch of plants providing a break from the current. I may be justifying to get my way 
but it seems reasonable, yeah?
Cheers!
Peterthefish
but it seems reasonable, yeah?Cheers!
Peterthefish
here's a link to the powder form which is what I use:
Pet Supplies for Less. They are helpful.
You can also find some information here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1
Pet Supplies for Less. They are helpful.
You can also find some information here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1
books. gotta love em!
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
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peterthefish
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:46 pm
- Location: Pasadena
Update
Shari- I never thanked you for the link. Thank you!! I ordered the Levasole (they switched in the generic brand- but who cares?) and it arrived about a week later.
Just a quick note on that company (petsupplies4less): they seem to have a complete lack of an order tracking system and too few customer svc reps. I would recommend anyone in the future to ask for at least priority shipping so you know approx when your meds will arrive- I was in the dark for a while and couldn't get an answer from them.
Ok here is the meat of the update:
Spot is still alive and I still have six (out of ten) neon tetras. I believe the neon deaths were caused by over feeding (they were babies and I don't think my LFS fed them very well)- still, my fault totally. I think spot was just being opportunistic on the little guys that started to die.
I have not treated the tank with Levasole (it just arrived Friday); I did treat the entire tank with Jungle Parasite Clear at half strength- twice with 48 hours in between doses and about a 15 gallon water change the night I put in the second dose (I have a 55 gallon aquarium). To prep for the meds I upped my heater as I high as it would go (it only brings the aquarium to about 83 degreed F... perhaps I need a better heater) and added a rather tacky airstone- that the loaches love. My discus seems to like it too, oddly enough. When I added the meds I dissolved them in a couple gallons of water and trickled them in using air hose (thanks to ardillakilla for that tip). The last treatment was added Tues night of last week.
Spot looks about the same (maybe just a hair wider) and is acting the same- always hungry and very active- maybe he just needs ritalin? All joking aside, I will move forward with the dosing of Levamisole Hydrochloride this week (I need to borrow a friends scale so I can accurately measure out doses). I will throw up another update after treatment.
Here is another oddity however: the other two clowns that came with spot (they are the three recent additions) have outpaced my old clown loaches in size. All three of these new clowns eat A LOT! I am purposefully feeding them too much so I can be assured that Spot stays alive despite his illness. But if these other new Clowns are infested with some sort of parasite, why are they already larger than my old ones? They are not only wider and taller, they are longer! They were not bigger than my old ones when I got them. Any ideas on this? Perhaps I should open a new thread but I don't know whether this is related to their illness or not....
Just a quick note on that company (petsupplies4less): they seem to have a complete lack of an order tracking system and too few customer svc reps. I would recommend anyone in the future to ask for at least priority shipping so you know approx when your meds will arrive- I was in the dark for a while and couldn't get an answer from them.
Ok here is the meat of the update:
Spot is still alive and I still have six (out of ten) neon tetras. I believe the neon deaths were caused by over feeding (they were babies and I don't think my LFS fed them very well)- still, my fault totally. I think spot was just being opportunistic on the little guys that started to die.
I have not treated the tank with Levasole (it just arrived Friday); I did treat the entire tank with Jungle Parasite Clear at half strength- twice with 48 hours in between doses and about a 15 gallon water change the night I put in the second dose (I have a 55 gallon aquarium). To prep for the meds I upped my heater as I high as it would go (it only brings the aquarium to about 83 degreed F... perhaps I need a better heater) and added a rather tacky airstone- that the loaches love. My discus seems to like it too, oddly enough. When I added the meds I dissolved them in a couple gallons of water and trickled them in using air hose (thanks to ardillakilla for that tip). The last treatment was added Tues night of last week.
Spot looks about the same (maybe just a hair wider) and is acting the same- always hungry and very active- maybe he just needs ritalin? All joking aside, I will move forward with the dosing of Levamisole Hydrochloride this week (I need to borrow a friends scale so I can accurately measure out doses). I will throw up another update after treatment.
Here is another oddity however: the other two clowns that came with spot (they are the three recent additions) have outpaced my old clown loaches in size. All three of these new clowns eat A LOT! I am purposefully feeding them too much so I can be assured that Spot stays alive despite his illness. But if these other new Clowns are infested with some sort of parasite, why are they already larger than my old ones? They are not only wider and taller, they are longer! They were not bigger than my old ones when I got them. Any ideas on this? Perhaps I should open a new thread but I don't know whether this is related to their illness or not....
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peterthefish
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- Location: Pasadena
Another Update and Dosing with Levamisole HCl
I feel like I am talking to myself but I think this is valuable information for others in my situation. Here goes:
Spot has definitely put on weight since the Parasite Clear treatment. Whatever was in him is at least knocked out enough that spot is able to keep some calories for his own use. Spot and his two brethren are still eating like crazy fish. The 3 old clowns are starting to eat more but are still smaller than the 3 new guys.
I performed some tank maintenance this weekend and late last night I trickled in .4g of Levamisole Hydrochloride powder that was dissolved into 5 gallons of water (about 50/50 R/O water with dechlorinated tap). All is well as of this morning- fish exhibit no changes in appearance or behavior. Their appetites are voracious and they are active. The tank appears a bit cloudy this morning- some translucent debris floating about. This is odd since I just did some water changing (about 15 gallons) this weekend, vacuumed the sand, and filter maintenance (Eheim 2217- backwashed, added carbon). Perhaps this is bits of worm and eggs- gross. Tonight I will perform a 50% water change and vacuum the sand thoroughly. I will dose them again in 5-7 days and then do a follow up dose two weeks after that. I will continue to update. Hopefully this log proves itself valuable for others.
Spot has definitely put on weight since the Parasite Clear treatment. Whatever was in him is at least knocked out enough that spot is able to keep some calories for his own use. Spot and his two brethren are still eating like crazy fish. The 3 old clowns are starting to eat more but are still smaller than the 3 new guys.
I performed some tank maintenance this weekend and late last night I trickled in .4g of Levamisole Hydrochloride powder that was dissolved into 5 gallons of water (about 50/50 R/O water with dechlorinated tap). All is well as of this morning- fish exhibit no changes in appearance or behavior. Their appetites are voracious and they are active. The tank appears a bit cloudy this morning- some translucent debris floating about. This is odd since I just did some water changing (about 15 gallons) this weekend, vacuumed the sand, and filter maintenance (Eheim 2217- backwashed, added carbon). Perhaps this is bits of worm and eggs- gross. Tonight I will perform a 50% water change and vacuum the sand thoroughly. I will dose them again in 5-7 days and then do a follow up dose two weeks after that. I will continue to update. Hopefully this log proves itself valuable for others.
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peterthefish
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:46 pm
- Location: Pasadena
Update
Spot is doing great. He has definitely put on weight. His body is no longer "pinched" looking and he is starting to fill out. He is still the skinniest but I expect him to make a full recovery. Awesome.
As an aside, I think I have figured out why my new loaches are bigger. I was concerned about the new guys' colors (they looked a little washed out compared to my old ones) so I searched for answers. I am now fairly certain that my new clowns are from Borneo and my old ones are from Sumatra. Their color markings are consistent with the article by Martin Thoene (here: http://www.loaches.com/articles/clown-l ... variations). So I am inferring from this that their size differences might be at least partially due to them being from different locations.
Another interesting development is that all my clowns have become significantly more active. After the first levamisole hydrochloride treatment I vacuumed the entire tank. To make sure I got everything, I moved the two pieces of driftwood that the loaches use as a home. When I put the driftwood back into place, I put them in a slightly different configuration (unintentionally). The loaches were a little disturbed by all the activity. They were out and about a lot more for the rest of that night and the next day; I assumed this was because they were refamiliarizing themselves with the new configuration. But this new activity has only increased if anything. This entire week they have been out (quite often) swimming around, playing with the bubble bar, and scavenging through the sand. They are being more social with each other, too- whereas before, the 3 old guys hung out together and the 3 new guys hung out together. I'm not sure what to attribute this new behavior to; it's quite a coincidence that this change came about right after the levamisole treatment.
I have also noticed a slight decrease in their appetites (or at least it seems they eat with less "desperation").
I am going to give them a second dose tomorrow night. More updates to come.
As an aside, I think I have figured out why my new loaches are bigger. I was concerned about the new guys' colors (they looked a little washed out compared to my old ones) so I searched for answers. I am now fairly certain that my new clowns are from Borneo and my old ones are from Sumatra. Their color markings are consistent with the article by Martin Thoene (here: http://www.loaches.com/articles/clown-l ... variations). So I am inferring from this that their size differences might be at least partially due to them being from different locations.
Another interesting development is that all my clowns have become significantly more active. After the first levamisole hydrochloride treatment I vacuumed the entire tank. To make sure I got everything, I moved the two pieces of driftwood that the loaches use as a home. When I put the driftwood back into place, I put them in a slightly different configuration (unintentionally). The loaches were a little disturbed by all the activity. They were out and about a lot more for the rest of that night and the next day; I assumed this was because they were refamiliarizing themselves with the new configuration. But this new activity has only increased if anything. This entire week they have been out (quite often) swimming around, playing with the bubble bar, and scavenging through the sand. They are being more social with each other, too- whereas before, the 3 old guys hung out together and the 3 new guys hung out together. I'm not sure what to attribute this new behavior to; it's quite a coincidence that this change came about right after the levamisole treatment.
I have also noticed a slight decrease in their appetites (or at least it seems they eat with less "desperation").
I am going to give them a second dose tomorrow night. More updates to come.
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peterthefish
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:46 pm
- Location: Pasadena
Conclusion
Spot made a full recovery. He is still catching up the other guys (who are huge) but looks completely healthy.
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