Lost my Clowns :(

[luvmyloaches]

I am so sad.....I had three happy, healthy clown loaches.

I did a re-scape, and soon after I discovered a dead Clown Loach !!

I did a water change and vaccumed half the tank the night before, but I guess I still churned up to much goo....

I couldn't believe my eyes!! The loach was covered in what looked like fuzz that turned out totally slimy!! It also looked kind of backened in the face. Just a few hours earlier they were just fine.

Shortly after finding this one, I moved a large lava rock only to discover a second one dead!! He was floating in a web like goo that was stuck to the bottom rock. He must have wedged himself in there and died

I don't understand how this happened so fast!! How could they get covered in this goo so fast??

I do water changes faithfully ever week and all my water para's kept perfect.

They were the larger two of the three(3 1/2in), the small one survived, to my surprise.

What in the world were they covered in? Was it bacterial, fungal, or is this how they decompose?

I'm totally at a loss and so very sad......

Please help!

[chefkeith]

So sorry to hear about your clowns.

White mucus or slime forming on dead clowns is normal.

If you're churning up alot of crap when gravel vac'ing, that is not a good thing for loaches. It means the filters are not doing a good enough job and that the gravel is too pourous.

The substrate needs to stay very clean.

Maybe we can help, but you'll need to tell us more about the tank. How big is it? Tell us about the water changes? What kind of fish are in it? Do you quarantine new fish? Any new fish? Have you ever used any meds in the tank? When, and what are they? What kind of rocks and decor are in the tank? What's the source water parameters? What's the tank water parameters?

[luvmyloaches]

Thank you for the quick response.

My tank is 100g long, crushed coral substrate, LARGE amont of lava rock and a few fake plants. Tankmates of cichlids (who never bother them).

I do weekly water changes and partial substrate cleaning. Water paras
kept pristine never allowing nitrates above 10. Had tank set up 11 months now, clowns for about 9?

My substrate is pourous and I know I churned up too much, in too little time......

I killed them!!!!

A lesson well learned...................

[luvmyloaches]

Sorry did not answer all your ?'s

No meds ever, did use salt and heat for ich once, with great success.

I did add more rock recently but no new fish.

I think that covers it!

Thanks again....

[helen nightingale]

sorry to ask, it may seem irrelevent, but my gut feeling is that you tank sounds like it may be a alkaline water. do you know the pH? both in the tank and from the tap (that is, if you are using tap water)

also, when you did the water change and re-scaping, was the water change bigger than usual?

i hope you little clown is OK

[luvmyloaches]

Yes it is, 8.0 (in tank), but always has been. Not sure out of the tap, I need to check that.

I know loaches like it lower but they seemed to do just fine in it.

Water change was about 50% (as always).

My little one seems to be doing well, thanks! I will get him some more playmates in the near future, after monitoring for awhile.

I'm sure I stirred up too much gunk for them to handle, poor things. I will be much more careful in the future, and with my constant tinkering of the tank

[helen nightingale]

please do check that tap water pH and post it.

i suggest you do smaller, more frequent water changes. 50% is quite a big change, especially as you do not know the water parameters coming out of the tap. if you do more frequent changes, you should stilll be able to hoover portions of the gravel each time to keep it nice and clean

another question - what type of cichlids are they? and how big?

i am glad to hear your little chap is doing well.

[luvmyloaches]

Thanks Helen.

I will check the tap. I've heard its best to let it sit for 24 hours before testing to get an accurate reading, is this correct?

I have african cichlids. The largest is approx 4 inches. They can be aggressive with one another, but never bother the clowns.

50% is what I have always done, so I really don't think that would be the cause after all this time do you?

I do really appreciate the thoughts and will definately check my tap.

[shari2]

So sorry to hear about your clowns.

I did a water change and vaccumed half the tank the night before, but I guess I still churned up to much goo....

At high pH ammonia is much more toxic to fish.
Anaerobic pockets lead to the formation of gases such as hydrogen sulfide, methane and nitrogen.
Hydrogen sulfide rapidly depletes the dissolved oxygen content to zero or near-zero, even at the water surface.

When you did your cleaning did you notice a sulfuric (rotten eggs) smell?

[jv72]

Wouldn't the crushed coral be a bigger problem than water from the tap? I've always been told and read that crushed coral is not good for freshwater tanks. Of course, might seem odd that they were fine before, but as someone else mentioned, the combo of the kicked up waste with the ph thrown off by crushed coral could have been a deadly combo. I've always heard crushed coral should only be used in saltwater, or am I wrong on that?

So sorry BTW, that really sux!

[jv72]

here's an example from a crushed coral product from "aquarium guys":

http://www.aquariumguys.com/cacrco40.html

says it's fine for cichlids, but not regular freshwater fish since it raises the ph too high.

[chefkeith]

luv- I think you're right. Stirring up the crushed coral substrate is probably what killed the loaches.

When you stirred it up you turned the water into what some people call liquid rock. Loaches won't tolerate this all that well. Then when you added the fresh water to the tank you dropped the hardness and mineral level too fast, and this probably put the clowns into osmotic shock.

Loaches should only be in tanks that have inert substrates. Crushed coral is probably the worst thing for them. Don't feel bad, I've made this same mistake before and lost some loaches because of it. Live and learn.

[helen nightingale]

chefkeith has summed up well the reason why i was asking your tpa water pH. pH and hardness are linked. i was wondering what your tap water pH was, as if it is say, 7, there will certainly be a big change in pH and hardness when you do a water change, especially such a large one, as you have been doing.

the coral, and the lava rock can just make the water even harder. it does sound like a much better setup for the cichlids than the loach.

Shari made a very important pont about the toxicity of ammonia too.

50% is what I have always done, so I really don't think that would be the cause after all this time do you?

i think it could be a contributing factor. id like you to imagine you are allergic to wool, and it makes you itch. the longer you wear a wooly jumper, the more itchy you will get. also, sometimes in fish, the reaction may not be immediately noticeable to you.

because you have plenty of coral gravel and lava rock in your tank, and hard, alkaline water, maybe it would be better to keep this tank for the cichlids and consider a new tank for the loach, and plenty of friends for him. have a look at this article:

http://www.loaches.com/articles/why-loa ... i-cichlids

[chefkeith]

helen- lava rock is inert, so that wouldn't add to the problem.
texas holey rock is calcifying though.

[Pilze]

So whats the best way to lower the pH and hardness for alkaline water? Mixing R/O and tap for water changes? What about the water softner pillows designed for Filstar canisters?