Clown Issue

[Tinman]

I have been full circle and end up here again. I have been fighting a problem with my Clowns and need some advice, here's a couple of vids of my Clowns that have issues. I have just treated with .3 salt solution and high temp of 91f for 14 days and used praziquantrel and diflubenzuron yet once I return to 400 ppm as the salt is removed three of my Clowns do this again. All the other specie are well and this is only several of my Clowns .

Before I hear Fin Rot realize of all my fish this only is Clowns and only in one tank. I have no substrate to collect waste and have completely removed any rock that may have waste in its pores. There is O2 via surface aggitation and a pump welling water up from the bottom plus 40 galllons a minute from my common system plus a cannister with a 36 watt uv on it. I have treated these with levimosal at least twice. I am wondering about abuse from the Almorhae but this only happens in this tank and looks like a sick fish being picked on rather than a fish picked on and thus made sick... what about Chilodonella ? Would this have been killed by the previous stated treatments? This is only 3 of 35 fish in the tank and has been a problem here that will not go away forever and pops up again now. The third one is more clamped than the rest and it seem to start on the tail as the bottom vid shows on the middle fish who is active as is the paler one below the wood in the first vid but that is only my tired eyes seeing,not a microscope .....

[connor]

If you find a solution to that I'd be more than interested to know. I have one clown (out of 17 loaches) who has exactly the same problem. It's my alpha clown loach. I suspect it had some violent altercations with the male ancistrus resulting in wounds that got infected but I can't be sure.

I am considering to put the alpha in a 30L bucket with airation, daily water changes and a treatment with eSHa 2000 ... hard to decide though if this would be good, despite the damaged fins it's acting quite normal and very alpha loachy.

-Connor

[Tinman]

Me too Conner. I am softening my water with peat slowly to see if that helps......These are not wounds imo but I am listening to the masses here as I have not solved this myself

[chefkeith]

I have a clown that has been unhealthy since I got it 2.5 years ago. I think this fish is a little retarded or something.

It's skinny and has fin/tail rot bouts every now and then. It's been through every medication treatment possible. The main problem with this fish is that it won't eat any staple foods. It will only eat live or fresh foods, so it has a unbalanced diet compared to the other loaches.

IMO, some fish just can't be cured.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi Tinman,

I would use Melafix on the main tank or take the Clown to a q-tank and dose 5mL for each 10 gal daylly for next 7 days.

Melafix does not harm the biology on main tank. It´s very eficient on recovery of fins.


Good luck!

[shari2]

From a quick look around, Tinman, it doesn't sound like Chilondella.

Does it keep recurring on the same 3 fish? It appears not to be contagious, yet if the same fish keep getting it there are only two things I can think of that could be the cause.

1. You have a fish/es that single out these three for some reason periodically.

2. They have a problem (possibly parasitic) where the organism reproduces on the fish and only one stage is creating the fraying/decaying fins. This would be odd in that it remains on the same fish throughout it's lifecycle, seems to cause no systemic problems, and one or more stages would have to be asymptomatic.

They are not exhibiting any other signs of stress besides the fin issue and the fading on one fish? Rapid breathing, increased lethargy, flashing, hanging on the bottom or near the water outlet or surface?

[connor]

@ Tinman
Not intending to highjack your thread. Hope you don't mind me posting here because I have similar issues.



Quick shot of my alpha loach. The fins actually do look better now - no more fungus visible, just quite ripped apart.

Any ideas on the paleish dots on its body? Those appeared over night and my guess is they were caused by the gill spikes of the ancistrus male guarding the eggs. It's about a month now and they neither get better nor worse.

-Connor

[shari2]

All I've found so far is this from the exotic pet vet:

Several microsporidian and myxosporidian parasites, including Ichthyosporidium, Nosema, Myxobolus, Dermocystidium and Henneguya can cause nodular skin diseases or internal nodules in tropical fish. Yellowish or white cysts, often called xenomas on the skin, gills, fins, in muscles or in internal organs may range in size from a few millimeters to a centimeter in diameter. Because of their small size, electron microscopy is usually needed to identify the parasite genus. The life cycles of these parasites are poorly understood, but they are thought to be direct. It is thought that resistant spores help spread these protozoa. These parasites can be species specific, so cross infections do not often occur. Internal nodules may not be noticeable; however, lesions on the skin, gills and fins are visible. There is no reliable treatment for these types of protozoa.

The spots on connor's fish are baffling. Been there for a month? Are there any behavioral signs of a problem?

[chefkeith]

Someone else here those same white spots on one of their clowns.

check Doglover_50 posts
Here's one-
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=7317



You might want to drop him an IM to see if that condition ever improved.

I'd like to know what happened if anyone finds out.

[shari2]

You have a better memory than I do Keith!

[connor]

The spots on connor's fish are baffling. Been there for a month? Are there any behavioral signs of a problem?

The alpha was more passive and hiding for about a week and its fins were affected by fungus. I managed to catch her easily last week (all hail bamboo tubes!) and bathed her in a bucket medicated with eSHa 2000 (6.3 mg ethacridine lactate (Rivanol), 1 mg proflavin, 3.2 mg copper 2+, 0.26 mg methyl orange) for 6 hours, after which I put her back in the main tank.

The fungus was gone after this and the loach came back to her bossy self. No behavioral problems since then. I also threw out the bamboo tubes for some PVC tubes ... not as pretty but the bamboo tubes were rotting a lil' too fast for my liking, esp. with the alpha sleeping in them (and her wounds coming in contact with the walls). I think this also helped, the fins are starting to look better now.

Regarding the weird dots on her body .. I'm quite sure they were caused by the gill spikes of the ancistrus catfish protecting the eggs. Perhaps they poked deep enough into the skin to cause little infections.

-Connor

[shari2]

They are mighty regularly spaced and that lateral line inflammation is not from the ancistrus, I don't think.

[Tinman]

Shari asked

Does it keep recurring on the same 3 fish? It appears not to be contagious, yet if the same fish keep getting it there are only two things I can think of that could be the cause.

1. You have a fish/es that single out these three for some reason periodically.

2. They have a problem (possibly parasitic) where the organism reproduces on the fish and only one stage is creating the fraying/decaying fins. This would be odd in that it remains on the same fish throughout it's lifecycle, seems to cause no systemic problems, and one or more stages would have to be asymptomatic.

They are not exhibiting any other signs of stress besides the fin issue and the fading on one fish? Rapid breathing, increased lethargy, flashing, hanging on the bottom or near the water outlet or surface?

1 Could be getting picked on in two cases after observation
2 This has moved through several never clearing from my system,not just the same but these it recurred.
3 some are breathing fast. I am thinking the fast breathing could be from gill damage and now it is unable to breath slowly possibly and I have some flashing and clamping on one. The one with the stringy bits is getting worse,the other two may be getting nipped and I am considering moving the Clowns but I will watch more

@ Tinman
Not intending to highjack your thread. Hope you don't mind me posting here because I have similar issues.

You are dead on target and always welcome on any thread I post no matter the direction you take it, We will learn this way.

CK added

I have a clown that has been unhealthy since I got it 2.5 years ago. I think this fish is a little retarded or something.

I will take this one in for counseling maybe then, A special needs fish in my custody that is now hanging closer to current as the breathing is labored on this one . It is also stringy at the fins still and clamped and back arched. It may be damage to the gills from previous infection/infestation and as the fish grows the gills do not develop and cause other issues but I am still observing,Thanks for the input all....