Dojo Loach Help

[starsplitter7]

Hi Diana,

Thanks for replying. I can add a heater if it would be better for Pinky. It is no problem. I feel responsible for her, so I will certainly do anything I need to get her better.

Her eyes are cloudy. I will work on a picture of her. Are the cloudy eyes related to a bacterial infection? I always tend to want to undertreat. If it is recommended I use the Tetracycline, then I will use the full dosage for the entire treatment course.

Tonight I will do a water change and add a small amout of salt. I have never had issues with very small amounts of salt. I will check all my values and treat with prime.

Thanks for your advice. Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

Good luck...and I'll think good thoughts... Kevin

Thanks again Kevin,

The tank Pinky is in has lowered water because I have eels in the tank, and I am terrified they will slip out. I am hoping with the ammonia in the water, it will help the fish get enough oxygen. I will be changing water and adding Prime. I will also add the dosage of salt Diana recommended.

If Pinky isn't much better tomorrow, I will move her to the new treatment tank. I also hope to add a picture of her tonight if I can get a good one. Maybe that will help determine if she has an infection on top of terrible Ammonia poisoning.

Thanks again, Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

Augh!

I did a 20% water change. I added a dose of prime, 1 teaspon of salt per 20 gallons, conditioned my water, added cycle just in case it can help and just did my tests. Augh!
Ammonia 1
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

My filter has two cartridges, so I am also going to change one -- I am thinking maybe the carbon is depleted. I won't touch the bio filter (the physical sponge bio support).

Here are pictures. Pinky didn't like the water change. I cleaned her container too. She is back under the filter getting fresh water. Best view I could get of her eyes -- I didn't want to disturb her too much. She is laying upright now.

Pinky's Back

See the red line outlining the area that sloughed off? (Goldie is swimming below her.)

Goldie in a moment of stillness. Note the bright eyes in the sand. Banjo catfish. Snail debris.

My other Dojos hanging out. I want you to see I have healthy happy Dojos. I feel like such a bad Dojo mom.

[grizzlyone]

Take the test results with a grain of salt.

The Prime can give false readings, remember, the baddies are still there, just not in a form that will hurt your fish.

If you take a look at the instructions that came along with the Prime, it will give you some information to that affect. Some tests will show the correct info, some will give false positive.

Rest assured that you have neutralized the ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, chlorine, chloramine and heavy heavy metals and will help with the slime coat.

I'd go slow on the water changes at this point, as you might be jiggering with the PH at this point and Pinkie doesn't need any additional stress. The biofilter is moot since the Prime will take up the slack until the bacteria multiply.

You need to take the carbon out at this point. It will absorb the medicine you are trying to get into the tank. Also, if you have plants, the carbon is also going to absorb trace elements that the plants need. Most planted tank people don't use carbon, or only use to to purge any remaining medicine out of your system after the treatment regimen.

I really would just stick with the Prime and the salt and the antibiotics. The less extra you add, the better.

At the risk of again sounding like a shill, I'm copying the FAQ from Seachem website.

Also, as I was looking there's a testimonial from one of our forum members (and it wasn't me) and a mention of www.loaches.com How's that for publicity.

Cheers,

Kevin


Prime™ Support

Q: I think that my Prime™might be old because it smells like it went bad...
A: Prime™has a very distinct odor that is similar to sulfur which is completely normal. Also, the presence of small black specks is normal.

Q: I am using Prime™ to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?
A: A Nessler based kit will not read ammonia properly if you are using Prime™... it will look "off scale", sort of a muddy brown (incidentally a Nessler kit will not work with any other products similar to Prime™). A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime™), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away. However, the best solution is to use our MultiTest: Ammonia™ kit... it uses a gas exchange sensor system which is not affected by the presence of Prime™ or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic)).

Q:I tested my tap water after using Prime and came up with an ammonia reading. Is this because of chloramine? Could you explain how this works in removing chloramine?
A: Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramine minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume. Prime will not halt your cycling process.
I am going to assume that you were using a liquid based reagent test kit (Nessler based, silica). Any type of reducing agent or ammonia binder (dechlorinators, etc) will give you a false positive. You can avoid this by using our Multitest Ammonia kit (not affected by reducing agents) or you can wait to test, Prime dissipates from your system within 24 hours.

Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?
A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

[starsplitter7]

Thanks! My Prime didn't come with any info other than what was on the bottle, and it didn't explain as well as you did that it is reducing and neutralizing the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. I feel a bit better.

Pinky is still in the main tank, which is why there's still carbon in the tank. When I changed out the filter cartridge I increased the water flow in the filter, so I think that is better. I was unsure whether I should start treating for the bacteria. If I should, then I will set up a tank just for Pinkie. I did add the Prime, salt and cycle. I figure those are the least invasive treatments.

Pinky is still shedding skin. Now I am worried I am looking at a fungus. I wouldn't know.

I haven't quite gotten into planted tanks yet. I do have java moss, cabomba, anacharis, hornwort, mondo grass, java fern, Jungle Val and corkscrew Val, but mostly I keep it if the fish want to eat it, graze off it, float in it. I have two beautiful large Madgascar Lace growing in a tank, but I am surprised it is so happy. I buy what is on sale. My farlowela likes to pretend to be grass. When I am more experienced I will work on plants more. Most of my plants stay planted for about 30 seconds after I replant it after a water change. Between the catfish and loaches, my of my plants are floating plants whether they want to be or not. I tied java ferns and java moss to bogwood, and it stayed attached for about a day and then became free floating.

Thanks again, Tanja.

[helen nightingale]

best wishes to pinkie

[starsplitter7]

Pinky is still with me this morning and is either sloughing more skin or has a terrible fungus infection.

I am leaving right now to buy her a heater, and I will move her to the hospital tank this afternoon. Then I will start treating with the antibiotics. Should I also treat for fungus with a product by the same company that makes the antibiotics? Or will it overwhelm her? Or should I start with the antibiotics and then if she is feeling better, start the treatment for fungus in a few days?

I am hoping completely clean, warm water will help her.

Thanks, Tanja

[starsplitter7]

Pinky is still with me. I set up her hospital tank, got her a heater, used a mature filter from another tank, removed the charcoal, some floating plants, added Prime, got everything stabalized and moved her in. I have her in the breeder laying in plants under the filter. She is upside down (laying on her back), but her breathing has slowed. I am hoping that it helps her to breath. I added the tetracycline. I will add a second dose tomorrow.

I was pretty disappointed. The Tetracycline is $15 for 10 packets. 1 packet treats 10 gallons, and you need four treatments. Turns out four packets were removed/stolen at the store. I will go tomorrow and ask them to replace them. Very frustrating.

[grizzlyone]

Thats why I my my meds at the feed and seed stores. You can usually find them almost anywhere that has farms.

I have a bag of antibiotics that is about 500 times what those pills have for $11, and my Pig dewormer (levamisole HCL) for about $15 for a bottle that will treat several thousand gallons.

Kevin

[starsplitter7]

I need to go find one of those stores.

[grizzlyone]

The tetracycline that I bought in Southern Illinois:


Duramycin-10 from Durvet

Tetracycline Hydrochloride Soluble Powder

The pouch I bought was 10g.

I was wrong about the price though. It was $4.89.

I bought this at Farm and Fleet in Salem, Il.

Kevin

[starsplitter7]

The problem is I just don't know what I am buying. I only chose the Tetracycline because it said Slime coat and eye cloud on the box. In the future if I need it, I will know this product works and buy it at a feed store. If my ferrets were sick, I would have no problem knowing what they need, but fish are a mystery for me. I try really hard to prevent problems, so don't need to try to treat. Unfortunately, Pinky has never been hearty. I have had her probably 6-8 months.

[helen nightingale]

i think its good that pinkie is with you and not some idiot. it sounds like you are doing good for her.

i hope the store replaces your stolen meds. some places are great for replacing stuff, and others seem to be very awkward.