UPDATE: One Stubborn White Spot + Preventative Medications

[soul-hugger]

Hello...

I had a pretty bad case of Ich on my adult Weather Loaches, treated them, and they have been ich-free for about a month.

The tank is 55 Gallons, pH, 7.6, nitrites, 0, ammonia, slightly over 0, temp, 73*F. I have not tested for GH, KH, or nitrAtes.

What has been bothering me is that although the ich has been gone for some time, there is one stubborn white spot on one of my loaches that just won't go away. It is right in the crook beside the dorsal fin, at the back. It looks like an ich spot, but never gets worse, and never spreads.

Could this be ich, or am I just worrying too much? I didn't notice it before they had the ich, but even hough the ich is gone, this one spot remains. Could it be something else, or should I treat them for ich again just to be on the safe side? I wold hate to have to put them through that again for no reason. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
soul-hugger

[chefkeith]

Can you take a picture of the spot?

[Diana]

Given that it does not go away I would guess it is not Ich. I would hold off on treatment, but watch it (and the other fish) and be ready to treat if Ich springs up again.

[soul-hugger]

Thanks for the replies!!

Unfortunately, I can't take a picture, because I don't have a digital camera. It would be very hard to take a picture because of the location of the spot and because it is so small.

It's probably best for now just to keep an eye on him, and make sure the spot doesn't spread or get worse. Since the ich has gone away, both large loaches have been out and about, eating well, and seem otherwise healthy.

I was just a little worried about that one spot, especially now that they have had ich. Now I am even more ready to deal with it if it happens again, and also determined to prevent it if at all possible.

soul-hugger

[Diana]

ready to deal with it if it happens again, and also determined to prevent it

Best way to handle any problem!

[soul-hugger]

Thanks, Diana..,

You have reassured me!

soul-hugger

[shari2]

does it look like an ich spot?
is it raised, or fuzzy at all, or is it more like a colorless small bump in the skin?

I'd continue to just watch and observe, as you plan, but am curious if it seems to be exactly like the ich spots you observed or could it be a scarring effect from where a large ich spot had been on the fish?

[soul-hugger]

It has been awhile since I posted this, and I just finished reading it again. Thank-you Shari, for replying. When you asked me to describe the spot, it put my mind at ease because it really didn't look that bad. I also read more carefully that you were curious to see what it turned out to be. The spot on my one loach is now gone. It was raised and very white, but not fuzzy.

Strange thing is.., now the other loach now has a colourless spot near the top of his mouth. It is not directly on the mouth, but is above the barbels on the top of his head under his eyes. This particular loach is the one who was stressed the most and had ich the worst. He has been hard to get a good look at because he hides a lot more than the other, larger loach. But today he was sleeping near the front of the tank, and I was able to get a very close and long look at him. The spot does not look like the one on the other loach, because it is more gray in colour. It's hard to tell if it's fuzzy, but you can see it from the side. It is larger than an ich spot, and somewhat diamond-shape, but it is still small.

This got me to thinking about secondary infections after ich, and if I should be using some kind of preventative. I had been using Pimafix and Melafix, until I learned it wasn't good for some loaches. I didn't have a problem with it, however. Is there somethig else, besides those two, that are a good preventative??

thanks,
soul-hugger

[shari2]

now the other loach now has a colourless spot near the top of his mouth. It is not directly on the mouth, but is above the barbels on the top of his head under his eyes. This particular loach is the one who was stressed the most and had ich the worst. He has been hard to get a good look at because he hides a lot more than the other, larger loach. But today he was sleeping near the front of the tank, and I was able to get a very close and long look at him. The spot does not look like the one on the other loach, because it is more gray in colour. It's hard to tell if it's fuzzy, but you can see it from the side. It is larger than an ich spot, and somewhat diamond-shape, but it is still small.

If he has been difficult to examine is it possible it was there before, or is this a new phenomenon?

For now, I'd keep the tank really clean and continue to observe the spot. It's only Pimafix that actually caused fish deaths for me. I'll never use it again. I have used Melafix on loaches with no issues. If it doesn't bother your fish you can continue to use it while you observe.

Watch for any growth, filling with fluid, redness, development of a dark spot within the area, or movement from the original location. And keep an eye out for other spots.

[soul-hugger]

It is entirely possible that the spot was there before. It seems funny that when you look at something for a long time, you never fail to notice something new. It's also very odd in a way because yesterday while staring at my loaches, I noticed their tails are different shapes. One has a roundish tail, and the other's tail comes to a point, sort of like a gentle spade-shape. I had noticed before that in one you can see a pronounced lateral line, (Whiskers) and in the other, you cannot (Tickles). (Not very creative names, I know, but for now that's what I have been affectionately calling them ) They are both the same mottled brown colour, but Tickles' colour is constant all the way down her body to her stomach, and Whiskers' is brown up to the lateral line, and a light cream-colour underneath. I wonder if they are even the same species, or if these are only individual differences. Another thing that has occurred to me is that they may be sexual differences, even though I have read that the sexes are nearly impossible to tell apart. They were both bought from the same store on the same day, but I have since learned that mixed shipments with loaches are highly common, and practically inevitable.

I think you're definitely right about the water changes, which I do often along with gravel siphoning. All in all I change about 50% per week, about 25% at a time. I may try the Melafix again, but I'm not so sure. I have added Kuhlis to the mix since then, and I'm not sure how they will react to it. I a going to begin a search for either a UV sterilizer or a diatom filter. I think this may be a good way to go. People seem to think Pima and Melafix are better because they're natural, but I guess that isn't always the case. Sure can't blame anyone for thinking that though. Too bad we sometimes have to find out the hard way what's good, and what is not. That's why I love LOL because you can share your experiences, both good and bad. I'll keep you updated on what happens...

Bye for Now
soul-hugger

[Diana]

"Natural" does not mean "better".

Poking some fun at this:

Water changes are about as natural as you can get. Look at the enormous water changes that happen daily in a river!
I would say that water changes are good.
As long as the parameters of the new water match the old for GH, KH, pH, TDS. But water changes can be bad if these numbers do not match.

The nitrogen cycle when it works is natural, but failure is natural, too. I don't want my fish exposed to that all natural ammonia or nitrite, though.

Natural foods might or might not be better. Not too good if they are covered with (entirely natural) mold! Not too good if they have been sitting around so long the vitamins are degraded. Give me (or my fish!) some carefully prepared frozen food! Not quite so natural, but better.

And, yes, natural remedies can be good or bad. There are a few flower based herbs that are in the Chrysanthemum family. Some people are allergic to pollen from this plant family. I like a cup of Chamomile tea, but I do not offer it to one particular friend! (Entirely natural oranges, watermelon and certain other natural fruits are not 'better' for this friend, either)

Bloodworms are a natural food for fish, and conveniently available freeze dried and frozen (call these procedures natural or not), but some fish keepers are allergic to bloodworms. The rash they get is a natural reaction, but is not good.

[soul-hugger]

No, natural is not always better. It is certainly true that most of the best and worst! things are generated by nature. But unfortunately, your friend had to try an orange or a chamomile tea before she could know she was allergic to it!

So goes the process of trial and error, and sometimes more error! I'm not sure many people have taken apart their belief that "natural is better" to really see why they believe it in the first place. Then they would surely see what you have seen, and realize in the end that almost all things come from nature, even if they come from man.

To be honest with you, I have never looked at it that way before, but it warrants some serious thought!

It's nice when you can both laugh and think at the same time!!

soul-hugger