I need some help with two of my yo yo loaches. For the last two months they have been flashing against the decor in the tank. There are no visible signs of disease and they are eating well during feedings. My nitrites have been zero and nitrates have been very low.
I have a Madagascar fish that also has a small white place on his bottom lip. It appears that he has gotten into a fight or ran into the aquarium wall. It will not heal. This has been present for over three months and has not changed in condition. I suspected columnaris and wondered if the loach’s had the same disease. I have read that flashing can be a symptom.
Treatments
First I treated the tank for one month with Copper Safe, since I have never dealt with velvet. Since yo yo loach’s are light in color I thought that I might be overlooking the visible symptoms. This treatment did not help.
After this treatment was complete I treated the tank with Maracyn/ Maracyn 2. I have treated the tank for nine days and see little improvement in the flashing. The Madagascar has improved some.
Can anyone help me with this problem?
Yo Yo Loach Problem
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Welcome Roxy 447, to the Fish Health & Treatment forum.
If you have a health problem with any of your fish, whether it be loaches or any other freshwater fish, please copy and paste the following along with your answers. This will help the other forum members to build up a picture of what is happening in your tank and will aid in a more prompt diagnosis and treatment recommendation:
* Type of fish that are affected (common name and latin name if possible - common names vary worldwide, latin names don't!).
* How long has the tank been set up for?
* Size of tank (dimensions and volume).
* How is the tank being filtered?
* Water temperature.
* Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?)
* Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc).
* What other fish are in the tank?
* As detailed a description as possible of the symptoms the fish are exhibiting (remember a photograph can speak a thousand words).
* How long ago the affected fish were added to the tank, and how long the fish have been displaying symptoms.
* Your current water parameters - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (please don't say 'my water is fine, the levels are ok', we would like actual numbers from the test results).
Many thanks,
The LOL Moderators.
If you have a health problem with any of your fish, whether it be loaches or any other freshwater fish, please copy and paste the following along with your answers. This will help the other forum members to build up a picture of what is happening in your tank and will aid in a more prompt diagnosis and treatment recommendation:
* Type of fish that are affected (common name and latin name if possible - common names vary worldwide, latin names don't!).
* How long has the tank been set up for?
* Size of tank (dimensions and volume).
* How is the tank being filtered?
* Water temperature.
* Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?)
* Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc).
* What other fish are in the tank?
* As detailed a description as possible of the symptoms the fish are exhibiting (remember a photograph can speak a thousand words).
* How long ago the affected fish were added to the tank, and how long the fish have been displaying symptoms.
* Your current water parameters - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (please don't say 'my water is fine, the levels are ok', we would like actual numbers from the test results).
Many thanks,
The LOL Moderators.
Re: Yo Yo Loach Problem
Thank you for the reply. I have included the requested information below.
Type of fish that are affected (common name and latin name if possible - common names vary worldwide, latin names don't!).
1 Yo Yo Loach, Botia almorhae and 1 Botia Kubotai- flashing once every 10 minutes
1 Madagascar Rainbowfish, Bedotia geayi- white sore on bottom lip
1 Rainbow Shark, Epalzeorhynchos frenatum- white patches on scales/ some flashing
-How long has the tank been set up for? 1 year 1 month
-Size of tank (dimensions and volume). 28 gallon 23.5”L x 12.5”W x 16”H
-How is the tank being filtered? Top Fin Power Filter
-Water temperature. 75 degrees
-Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?) I vacuum the gravel and replace 50% of water every week and a half. I change out/ clean the filter every other time. When I clean the filter I wash all parts with a filter brush and replace the filter cartridge.
-Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc). I added some plants and a tetra about 2 months ago from PetsMart. I am unsure of the plant name.
-What other fish are in the tank? 1 angel fish, 1 pleco, 1 pictus catfish, 1 female betta, 1 small tetra
-As detailed a description as possible of the symptoms the fish are exhibiting (remember a photograph can speak a thousand words).
Loaches- flashing against rocks- no other symptoms
Madagascar- small white sore on bottom lip. When I first noticed this he stayed at the bottom of the tank and shimmied. He no longer exhibits this behavior and eats well.
Rainbow Shark- flashing and small areas on scales are lighter in color. This appears as a small white spot in one area. Some days he appears light in overall color and swims in one small area.
-How long ago the affected fish were added to the tank, and how long the fish have been displaying symptoms.
Loach- been in tank 5 months- showing symptoms for 3 months
Madagascar- been in tank 1 year- showing symptoms 3 months
Rainbow Shark- been in tank 6 months- showing symptoms 2-3 months
-Your current water parameters –
Ammonia- not sure
Nitrite- .5
Nitrate- 20
pH- 6.8
Alkalinity- 80
Hardness- 75
Type of fish that are affected (common name and latin name if possible - common names vary worldwide, latin names don't!).
1 Yo Yo Loach, Botia almorhae and 1 Botia Kubotai- flashing once every 10 minutes
1 Madagascar Rainbowfish, Bedotia geayi- white sore on bottom lip
1 Rainbow Shark, Epalzeorhynchos frenatum- white patches on scales/ some flashing
-How long has the tank been set up for? 1 year 1 month
-Size of tank (dimensions and volume). 28 gallon 23.5”L x 12.5”W x 16”H
-How is the tank being filtered? Top Fin Power Filter
-Water temperature. 75 degrees
-Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?) I vacuum the gravel and replace 50% of water every week and a half. I change out/ clean the filter every other time. When I clean the filter I wash all parts with a filter brush and replace the filter cartridge.
-Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc). I added some plants and a tetra about 2 months ago from PetsMart. I am unsure of the plant name.
-What other fish are in the tank? 1 angel fish, 1 pleco, 1 pictus catfish, 1 female betta, 1 small tetra
-As detailed a description as possible of the symptoms the fish are exhibiting (remember a photograph can speak a thousand words).
Loaches- flashing against rocks- no other symptoms
Madagascar- small white sore on bottom lip. When I first noticed this he stayed at the bottom of the tank and shimmied. He no longer exhibits this behavior and eats well.
Rainbow Shark- flashing and small areas on scales are lighter in color. This appears as a small white spot in one area. Some days he appears light in overall color and swims in one small area.
-How long ago the affected fish were added to the tank, and how long the fish have been displaying symptoms.
Loach- been in tank 5 months- showing symptoms for 3 months
Madagascar- been in tank 1 year- showing symptoms 3 months
Rainbow Shark- been in tank 6 months- showing symptoms 2-3 months
-Your current water parameters –
Ammonia- not sure
Nitrite- .5
Nitrate- 20
pH- 6.8
Alkalinity- 80
Hardness- 75
Rosanna
Hi Roxy.
What size is the Topfin filter/how much water does it move? You need to test for ammonia. If your test is correct and you have measurable nitrite, something is wrong. How do you go about replacing the filter cartridges when you clean? If you're replacing it every 10 days you're throwing away most of your bacteria with the cartridge and causing your tank to recycle. If you can, rinse the cartridge in tank water and reuse it. If it needs replacing I usually let them soak in the tank for a week before to grow bacteria. I only have one small tank with a cartridge filter. I've replaced them with Aquaclear filters whose sponges last forever. That's about all I can add. Shari, Diana and the crew will hopefully be along to help. Good luck!
What size is the Topfin filter/how much water does it move? You need to test for ammonia. If your test is correct and you have measurable nitrite, something is wrong. How do you go about replacing the filter cartridges when you clean? If you're replacing it every 10 days you're throwing away most of your bacteria with the cartridge and causing your tank to recycle. If you can, rinse the cartridge in tank water and reuse it. If it needs replacing I usually let them soak in the tank for a week before to grow bacteria. I only have one small tank with a cartridge filter. I've replaced them with Aquaclear filters whose sponges last forever. That's about all I can add. Shari, Diana and the crew will hopefully be along to help. Good luck!
1stly the water quality is poor. You need more filtration. Apparently, the filter can't keep up with the ammonia produced by the fish.
Smaller more frequent water changes should be done also. A 50% water change can be disturbing to the fishes osmolarity system and it's immune system. I recommend two 20% water changes per week.
There are also some major stocking issues. Most fish do better when they are kept in schools with fish of their own kind. What you have is many different individual species. Keeping them this way is very stressful to them. Them being sick could be related to them not being happy.
When fish are Happy they are usually Healthy.
Water temp is also too low for the loaches.
Smaller more frequent water changes should be done also. A 50% water change can be disturbing to the fishes osmolarity system and it's immune system. I recommend two 20% water changes per week.
There are also some major stocking issues. Most fish do better when they are kept in schools with fish of their own kind. What you have is many different individual species. Keeping them this way is very stressful to them. Them being sick could be related to them not being happy.
When fish are Happy they are usually Healthy.
Water temp is also too low for the loaches.
Yo Yo Loach Problem
Thank you for the advice. I have only had fish for one year and am still learning. There is so much to know and I have much to learn. I currently use a Top Fin 30 Power Filter for my 28 gallons. Do you think I need a better filtration system? In the future I will clean the filter cartridge instead of replacing it completely. I will take your advice and do two 20% water changes per week.
I lowered the water temp. because I suspected columnaris. I will slowly increase it back to the normal 78 degrees.
I know I have stocking issues. I guess I need to get more loaches and get rid of some of my other fish. I suspected this might have been the problem.
I lowered the water temp. because I suspected columnaris. I will slowly increase it back to the normal 78 degrees.
I know I have stocking issues. I guess I need to get more loaches and get rid of some of my other fish. I suspected this might have been the problem.
Rosanna
Fish flash for a variety of reasons. Sometimes an external parasite is involved, but not always.
Poor water quality can cause flashing, patchy skin, lethargy, and general failure to thrive. Fish can live with poor water quality for some time, but not well. Stress can also cause flashing. Rapid water chemistry changes that can occur from large water changes is stressful. As is keeping fish in unnatural conditions - like schooling fish alone, or territorial or shy fish in the wide open. Water temperature can also be a stressor. Too low and their metabolism and immune system drop, too high and the oxygen levels can be compromised without increased water movement.
I suspect chefkeith is correct in that you are mini-cycling your tank every time you replace a filter cartridge. Would it be possible for you to get a second filter (an aquaclear hang on the back would be good) on the tank?
I also agree that with your smallish tank you should concentrate on two or three species only and make them fish that can live in similar water conditions.
Rainbow sharks can be aggressive fish. A single rainbow shark in the tank is fine as long as he's with other fish that can defend themselves or are fast and have hiding places. Provide territorial dividers like plants or wood that break up the space so he can call one corner his.
Rainbows, yoyos, and tetras benefit from having other members of their species. The rainbows and tetras especially are true schooling fish and will be stressed living solo, nor will you experience their natural behaviors in your tank.
What kind of pleco is it? Common plecs will outgrow your tank rapidly, and they are large waste producers.
Angelfish like slow moving very warm, soft water. 80-82 F. bettas like similar slow moving water, but don't need the high temps. Yoyos prefer warmer water, but like more water movement than the former. I have kept yoyos with angels myself, though in a larger tank. Angels can get quite large over time and are slow moving, stately fish. They can also be territorial and aggressive (they have individual personalities). Your single yoyo might be tempted to harass the angelfish. Give him some buddies and he'll keep busy with his own kind most of the time.
Pictus cats also prefer to live in groups and 75 is on the low end of the temp scale for them. They can also be problematic to smaller fish (like your tetra).
Angels, pictus, rainbows, yoyos (and really any fish) need clean, good quality water. Smaller, more frequent water changes would be better. Do you know if the replacement water is very close in parameters to your tank? Adding 50% water volume to your tank could be messing with the chemical balance and stressing the fish.
Unfortunately, you are limited by the size of your tank. 3 yoyos, the angel, a small plec like ancistrus OR a couple of corydoras catfish with a small school of tetras is the max I think I'd go for in your tank, though the yoyos would really do better in a 55...
btw - what is your general location? we're a pretty international group here, and what's available differs greatly depending on your location.
Poor water quality can cause flashing, patchy skin, lethargy, and general failure to thrive. Fish can live with poor water quality for some time, but not well. Stress can also cause flashing. Rapid water chemistry changes that can occur from large water changes is stressful. As is keeping fish in unnatural conditions - like schooling fish alone, or territorial or shy fish in the wide open. Water temperature can also be a stressor. Too low and their metabolism and immune system drop, too high and the oxygen levels can be compromised without increased water movement.
I suspect chefkeith is correct in that you are mini-cycling your tank every time you replace a filter cartridge. Would it be possible for you to get a second filter (an aquaclear hang on the back would be good) on the tank?
I also agree that with your smallish tank you should concentrate on two or three species only and make them fish that can live in similar water conditions.
Rainbow sharks can be aggressive fish. A single rainbow shark in the tank is fine as long as he's with other fish that can defend themselves or are fast and have hiding places. Provide territorial dividers like plants or wood that break up the space so he can call one corner his.
Rainbows, yoyos, and tetras benefit from having other members of their species. The rainbows and tetras especially are true schooling fish and will be stressed living solo, nor will you experience their natural behaviors in your tank.
What kind of pleco is it? Common plecs will outgrow your tank rapidly, and they are large waste producers.
Angelfish like slow moving very warm, soft water. 80-82 F. bettas like similar slow moving water, but don't need the high temps. Yoyos prefer warmer water, but like more water movement than the former. I have kept yoyos with angels myself, though in a larger tank. Angels can get quite large over time and are slow moving, stately fish. They can also be territorial and aggressive (they have individual personalities). Your single yoyo might be tempted to harass the angelfish. Give him some buddies and he'll keep busy with his own kind most of the time.
Pictus cats also prefer to live in groups and 75 is on the low end of the temp scale for them. They can also be problematic to smaller fish (like your tetra).
Angels, pictus, rainbows, yoyos (and really any fish) need clean, good quality water. Smaller, more frequent water changes would be better. Do you know if the replacement water is very close in parameters to your tank? Adding 50% water volume to your tank could be messing with the chemical balance and stressing the fish.
Unfortunately, you are limited by the size of your tank. 3 yoyos, the angel, a small plec like ancistrus OR a couple of corydoras catfish with a small school of tetras is the max I think I'd go for in your tank, though the yoyos would really do better in a 55...
btw - what is your general location? we're a pretty international group here, and what's available differs greatly depending on your location.
Yo Yo Loach Problem
Thank you for the detailed reply. This really helps 
I am from Johnson City, TN. How about you?
I think I need to get rid of my pleco and madagascar rainbow fish. I am not sure what type of pleco I have, but he has grown enormously since I purchased him. He is about 4" long. My Madagascar is in the same boat. I did not know that plecos produce a lot of waste. That is good information to know.
I do have some problems with compatibility. The rainbow shark is aggressive towards the betta only. The madagascar chases the rainbow shark and betta. The yo yo's keep to themselves and do not bother the angel fish.
I know I need a larger tank and would take one in a heartbeat. At the moment I cannot afford one. I hope to be able to acquire one in the future.
I am from Johnson City, TN. How about you?I think I need to get rid of my pleco and madagascar rainbow fish. I am not sure what type of pleco I have, but he has grown enormously since I purchased him. He is about 4" long. My Madagascar is in the same boat. I did not know that plecos produce a lot of waste. That is good information to know.
I do have some problems with compatibility. The rainbow shark is aggressive towards the betta only. The madagascar chases the rainbow shark and betta. The yo yo's keep to themselves and do not bother the angel fish.
I know I need a larger tank and would take one in a heartbeat. At the moment I cannot afford one. I hope to be able to acquire one in the future.
Rosanna
Hi Rosann,
Ditto the other responses above.
Right now the fish list contains mostly fish that are incompatible in that small a tank.
The shark is territorial, and is arguing with everyone that looks like a problem. There is not enough room for the other fish to get out of his space, and he does not understand that the other fish cannot go away farther. He thinks the other fish is hanging around to continue to challenge him.
By the time you get enough of each species to make a minimum school of each you will have enough fish to stock a 50-75 gallon tank.
Your tank now is sort of like having a dozen medium sized dogs in a studio apartment, and some of them do not like each other.
Top fin is a low quality filter. Keep it, but also get an Aquaclear 30, or get an Aquaclear 50 and do not use the TF. (Keep it as a back up, or for a quarantine tank).
The health issues could very well be water quality. As above: I think you are creating a mini-cycle with each water change and filter change. This is causing the ammonia and nitrite to keep coming back, and just as the bacteria grow to a big enough population you are throwing them away. The other changes that happen when you change that much water less frequently are another source of irritation.
Solution A)
Get a larger tank. (4' long minimum) Move the current filter, as much decor as you can and add these fish. Set up a new filter (Rena Filstar XP3 or Aquaclear 70 or even a 110) and as soon as it has grown a good population of nitrifying bacteria move the old filter back to the 26 gallon. Use the small tank as a quarantine tank and buy more of each schooling species (one species at a time) until everyone is in a much better social setting. You can search here to get a lot of info about quarantine tanks (There is a thread currently going on here in the Health Forum) Note that the Madagascar Rainbow is a cool water Rainbow, and his temperature range barely overlaps that of the other fish.
Solution B)
Return these fish to a store or other fish keeper and re-stock with fish that do not grow over 2" long in this tank. Do enough research to stock with the right numbers for social issues such as territorial and schooling fish. Get an Aquaclear 30 or 50. Never throw away beneficial bacteria.
Ditto the other responses above.
Right now the fish list contains mostly fish that are incompatible in that small a tank.
The shark is territorial, and is arguing with everyone that looks like a problem. There is not enough room for the other fish to get out of his space, and he does not understand that the other fish cannot go away farther. He thinks the other fish is hanging around to continue to challenge him.
By the time you get enough of each species to make a minimum school of each you will have enough fish to stock a 50-75 gallon tank.
Your tank now is sort of like having a dozen medium sized dogs in a studio apartment, and some of them do not like each other.
Top fin is a low quality filter. Keep it, but also get an Aquaclear 30, or get an Aquaclear 50 and do not use the TF. (Keep it as a back up, or for a quarantine tank).
The health issues could very well be water quality. As above: I think you are creating a mini-cycle with each water change and filter change. This is causing the ammonia and nitrite to keep coming back, and just as the bacteria grow to a big enough population you are throwing them away. The other changes that happen when you change that much water less frequently are another source of irritation.
Solution A)
Get a larger tank. (4' long minimum) Move the current filter, as much decor as you can and add these fish. Set up a new filter (Rena Filstar XP3 or Aquaclear 70 or even a 110) and as soon as it has grown a good population of nitrifying bacteria move the old filter back to the 26 gallon. Use the small tank as a quarantine tank and buy more of each schooling species (one species at a time) until everyone is in a much better social setting. You can search here to get a lot of info about quarantine tanks (There is a thread currently going on here in the Health Forum) Note that the Madagascar Rainbow is a cool water Rainbow, and his temperature range barely overlaps that of the other fish.
Solution B)
Return these fish to a store or other fish keeper and re-stock with fish that do not grow over 2" long in this tank. Do enough research to stock with the right numbers for social issues such as territorial and schooling fish. Get an Aquaclear 30 or 50. Never throw away beneficial bacteria.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Thanks
Diana,
Thank you for the helpful reply. I am sorry I have been delayed in getting back with you. I have been out of town.
I like the first option you provided the best. I am currently in the process of looking for a larger tank (50-75 gallons) at a low price. I will make the suggested changes in the meantime.
Thank you for all your help!
Thank you for the helpful reply. I am sorry I have been delayed in getting back with you. I have been out of town.
I like the first option you provided the best. I am currently in the process of looking for a larger tank (50-75 gallons) at a low price. I will make the suggested changes in the meantime.
Thank you for all your help!
Rosanna
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