Clown Loach Turning Black...

[Icewall42]

So, in my circus parade of health problems, my oldest clown loach is now turning black where he's orange and he looks like he's getting thinner. I'm just so mad at the moment because I feel like no matter what I do with this tank, something new goes wrong. It's almost making me want to quite this hobby altogether because the problems just keep coming, and coming, and coming.

Long story short, I finally purcahsed a Rena FilStar XP3 and stuck it on my 72 gallon tank along with the established Magnum 350 (whichw as obviously not doing it's job). The tank immediately looked better and everything looked good for a week. Now, suddenyl overnight, the tank gets completely white and clouded up, so I did a 25% water change and added Ammo-Lock to the tank (because the few fish I have in this tank, the ammonia levels spiked really badly but have always been high despite the new filtration).

I noticed for weeks that my two largest clowns were getting dark patches, but the other one is still currently fat, bright, and active. My biggest one still eats but he looks hunched over, his fins are up and whole, but all of his orange is turning completely black--much worse than just greying out.

Any clue what's going on? There are no other signs of ammonia burn, no ragged fins, no red spots or streaks.

[shari2]

The white cloud was a bacterial bloom (beneficial bacteria). It shouldn't be a problem for the fish.

Can you post a pic of the fish in question?

[chefkeith]

Clown loaches can get real dark for whatever reason. I don't know if it has anything to do with their health.

Have you ever seen how dark mamaschild's clown loach named Albert could get?


http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=257

[Icewall42]

Hmmm no, but that picture is actually reasonably close to what I'm seeing. I've been ignoring the issue because I thought it wouldn't affect health but now I'm not so sure. He looks like your large clown except he seems to be losing some weight, and the blackness is patchier looking. It congregates all around his orange areas and some of the black. It's especially bad on the white of his belly. I thought it might be ammonia burn, but none of the fins are ripped up and I didn't see any dark areas.

Also, while the second largest clown has some of this black patchiness, he's obviously in better health. None of the other 3-4" clowns have any problems whatsoever, they are fat, bright, and happy too.

I'll try and get a picture though that might be difficult given the bacteria bloom. It's good to hear that this bloom might be harmless, but it's been int he tank a good two days now and the ammonia levels have actually worsened. I figured this bacteria would be converting it by now...

Also, I found it odd that there's a horrific amount of ammonia, and a reasonable amount of nitrates, but zero nitrites. Also, the pH has been a steady 6.0-6.5 for years (not high enough so I was told to make ammonia toxic, and I've been using Ammo-Lock every two days, as the isntrucitons said, plus that 25% water change yesterday).

EDIT: Whoops, I read too quickly and assumed that was your clown int he picture.

[chefkeith]

I've got leave for evening now (bowling night), but I just wanted to mention that Ammolock can give false positives on most ammonia test kits.

I

[Icewall42]

I'm hoping it's just a false positive, though I actually gave it 2-3 days when I last did a chemical test. I put the Ammo-Lock in again just after.

Even so, I'm really hoping it's a false positive.

[Diana]

The bacteria that grow so fast they can cause a cloudy tank are not the nitrifying bacteria. They are helpful bacteria, they decompose other things, but do not help or hinder ammonia problems.

You are right that at that low a pH most or all the ammonia is in the Ammonium NH4+ form and is therefore less toxic. I would still be concerned, though, because ammonia (either sort) suggests there is a problem with the bacteria that remove ammonia. Did you remove the old, established filter, or are you running them together for a while?
The lack of nitrite is a temporary condition. As the bacteria grow that remove ammonia they will be turning it into nitrite. Be ready! The bacteria that removes nitrite grow even slower, so the nitrite may continue trying to spike for a couple of weeks. Keep up with the water changes, and add 1 teaspoon of salt per 20 gallons to prevent Brown Blood Disease. This is a very low level of salt, well tolerated by even the most salt sensitive fish. Keep the nitrites under 1.0ppm

I am also concerned that you said that ammonia seems to always be high? Is this just since adding the new filter? Or before the new filter?

The CL is dark, but this started before the new filter was added?

[Icewall42]

The ammonia has always been high, which is why I got the new filter in hopes of keeping up with the tank. These clowns are really all that's in the tank except for a kuhli, a couple otos, and a golden dojo.

I am currently running both filters--the old one and the new.

The black problem started right when I setup the new filter. It was the only filter that had carbon in it, and I've had a spot problem from carbon before on these clowns, so I wonder if this is an allergic reaction to the carbon?

I just did another 25-30% water change and will probably do another tomorrow. After this change, and the 25% yesterday, the ammonia level has not budged.

[starsplitter7]

Do you use Prime?

What product do you check your ammonia with?

[Icewall42]

I use Prime on occasion. I used it a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not sure exactly what it is I use for the ammonia, I'd have to check.

But the even worse news is that I got another look at the fish, and it can't possibly look any worse. Not only is he patchy black, I spied a bleached patch on his side neat the tail. I've never seen anything like this at all and now I'm seriosuly worried I'm goignt o lose him... to something I've never ever seen and can't even begin to treat. There's nothing in the way of parasites, flukes, or fungus. The tankw as already recently treated for a bacteria infection on another fish wish seemed to have cleared up.

I'm serious, I don't know what to do, I feel like I'm going to wake up to a dead 12 year old fish And none of the others are affetced like this, one or two of the others have very minor black pacthing but this is just horrendous.

[Icewall42]

Best I can do at the moment until I get him in quarantine.

[shari2]

Grasping at straws here, but did you rinse the carbon well?

...........

did a quick google and it seems that fish recovering from ammonia or nitrite burn will turn black. The black is like scabs healing over the damaged areas. If you can get that ammonia issue under control, he should recover.

Orange Goldfish Develops Black Patches - Some individuals will get a bright orange fish from the petstore and within a few days of getting it home it develops black patches on the body. These black patches are usually on the back and sides. After a week, the patches begin to fade and the fish is returning to its normal orange color. The reason for this is Melanophore Migration. This is caused by either a chemical irritant or injury to the fish's body. Some common reasons:

*

ammonia surge
*

low pH
*

fluke infestation
*

ick or costia infection

The black coloring usally does not come until the fish is in the healing process! so it is safe to assume that the fish was either in poor water conditions or under some type of stress before you purchased it. Once the healing begins the fish will usually regain its normal coloration within three to six weeks.

[starsplitter7]

The reason I was asking about the Prime is because depending on your ammonia test, it can give you false positives for ammonia. Since Prime detoxifies the ammonia, and doesn't actually remove it, the tests will still show high ammonia readings. I have Seachem ammonia indicators hanging in my tank to let me know if there is a problem. My API tests always give me false positives.

[Icewall42]

I thought we rinsed the carbon pretty well, but it's possible we didn't get all of the residue out of it and that it got into the tank and started irritating the skin of the more sensitive... I'm more inclined to think the carbon is somehow at fault since I've had black spotting before from carbon, though nothing like this, and because this discoloration took a serious turn once I installed that new filter.

It could also be an ammonia spike from the tank tryng to re-cycle since I don't think it ever cycled in the first place. I really hope it settles down soon.

I ended up moving this clown into the smaller quarantine tank, which when I tested it, it had the same chemical composition as the larger tank except for absolutely zero ammonia. That tank has been properly cycled for some time now and contains some yoyos and skunks.

I hope he will improve in there. If it is ammonia burn, and the black is from healing, hopefully now he can do so in peace.

I used the prime long enough ago that I don't think it's causing a false positive now, but I suppose the ammo-lock might still be, especially since I don't think either filter is removing the detoxified ammonia yet.

EDIT: Slightly better pictures. Please excuse the algae on the glass... as you can imagine, more important things have been keeping me occupied

[soul-hugger]

I've never had clown loaches before, so I have no advice to add, but I hope he gets better

soul-hugger