Cloudy water with a film on surface???

[vealboy]

Check the ammonia levels.
I have occasionally seen high ammonia associated with foam (long lasting bubbles) and cloudy water.

I tested on 6/5/09:
NO3: 40
NO2: 0
HARD: 120
ALK: 0
PH: 6.4

I just retested 06/07/09:
NO3: 20
NO2: 0
HARD: 120
ALK: 80
PH: 6.4

It has been a few hours since I skimmed the foam, and now there is a huge foamy mass that I will skim off. Since the Ammonia is 0, could this condition be a bacterial bloom? All the tank inhabitants that I can see seem to be doing ok.

Some visual aides:

[chefkeith]

Wow, that is cloudy.

I'd be doing back to back water changes until it clears up. Start with a 20% water change, then slowly work your way up to 50% water changes.

Pull those rainbow rocks out of the tank. Those are known to leach (potassium? ) especially when the pH is in the acidic range or <7.

[vealboy]

Wow, that is cloudy.

I'd be doing back to back water changes until it clears up. Start with a 20% water change, then slowly work your way up to 50% water changes.

Pull those rainbow rocks out of the tank. Those are known to leach (potassium? ) especially when the pH is in the acidic range or <7.

I have done almost a 50% change over the course of the day...

OK...potassium...that makes sense! My PH had been in the 7.5 range until I added the driftwood...now it is 6.4!!!!! That is the 'Loach Lair' so those the clowns will need to find another hideyhole.

Thanks Chef!!

[Diana]

That foam suggests a protein source. Bubbles that hold together need more than just water in their film. Protein is very good at making stronger bubbles that become foam.

The cloudiness could be from any of the following:

pH altering materials: Things like pH Up and pH Down can cause extreme cloudiness. I would test each of the items in your tank separately in a bucket of water. See which might be the culprit, then try them in combination if each one singly seems OK. Not usually associated with foam. pH problems are not often associated with foam.
If all this started when the wood was added, then I would remove the wood first, and set it up in a tub of water with just dechlor and an air bubbler. Check pH over several days and see if this really is the reason the pH has dropped in the tank. Clean the tank again, and see if the cloudiness comes back to the tank, or to the tub with the wood.
The next clue might be the rock, minerals can certainly contribute to the cloudiness. If this rock only reacts this way in low pH water you might need to set up something different from plain ol' tap water to test this.

Green water algae gets started as a grey or white looking cloudiness, but not this dense! It shows green within a few days. Might be associated with foam, but indirectly: whatever fertilizer source is encouraging the algae may also result in foam)

Bacteria growth. Hetertrophic bacteria will grow in the water so fast that they can cloud the water like this. They are feeding on something in the water. Dead fish, or something. In a new set up they are feeding on the dust and skin oils from when you set up the tank, and this does not last for more than a few days or a week. Their food source is gone, so the population drops. In an established tank there is a new food supply, such as a sudden increase in food or a dead fish. These are not nitrifying bacteria, but they are beneficial. May be associated with foam, especially because protein causes foam, and protein is a food source for these bacteria.

Stir up substrate when you are cleaning or adding water. This usually settles down withing a couple of hours, or by the next day. Might be associated with foam if you stirred up a lot of organic debris while you were cleaning.

I see your test results, that list does not include NH3/NH4+ (Ammonia and ammonium)
Since you say there is no ammonia (either sort) I will agree that there may be an incompatibility between the rock and the wood.
Good that the nitrate is coming down!

I have that sort of rock in several tanks, including tanks with pH in the 6s, and have not seen clouding like this.

[vealboy]

That foam suggests a protein source. Bubbles that hold together need more than just water in their film. Protein is very good at making stronger bubbles that become foam.

The cloudiness could be from any of the following:

pH altering materials: Things like pH Up and pH Down can cause extreme cloudiness. I would test each of the items in your tank separately in a bucket of water. See which might be the culprit, then try them in combination if each one singly seems OK. Not usually associated with foam. pH problems are not often associated with foam.
If all this started when the wood was added, then I would remove the wood first, and set it up in a tub of water with just dechlor and an air bubbler. Check pH over several days and see if this really is the reason the pH has dropped in the tank. Clean the tank again, and see if the cloudiness comes back to the tank, or to the tub with the wood.
The next clue might be the rock, minerals can certainly contribute to the cloudiness. If this rock only reacts this way in low pH water you might need to set up something different from plain ol' tap water to test this.

Green water algae gets started as a grey or white looking cloudiness, but not this dense! It shows green within a few days. Might be associated with foam, but indirectly: whatever fertilizer source is encouraging the algae may also result in foam)

Bacteria growth. Hetertrophic bacteria will grow in the water so fast that they can cloud the water like this. They are feeding on something in the water. Dead fish, or something. In a new set up they are feeding on the dust and skin oils from when you set up the tank, and this does not last for more than a few days or a week. Their food source is gone, so the population drops. In an established tank there is a new food supply, such as a sudden increase in food or a dead fish. These are not nitrifying bacteria, but they are beneficial. May be associated with foam, especially because protein causes foam, and protein is a food source for these bacteria.

Stir up substrate when you are cleaning or adding water. This usually settles down withing a couple of hours, or by the next day. Might be associated with foam if you stirred up a lot of organic debris while you were cleaning.

I see your test results, that list does not include NH3/NH4+ (Ammonia and ammonium)
Since you say there is no ammonia (either sort) I will agree that there may be an incompatibility between the rock and the wood.
Good that the nitrate is coming down!

I have that sort of rock in several tanks, including tanks with pH in the 6s, and have not seen clouding like this.

Wow...lots of variables. I took 2 of the 3 pieces of wood and the rainbow rock out of the tank. If these new additions lowered the pH from 7.5 to <6, I didn't want to take it all out at once, in hopes that the change will be gradual enough for the fish to adapt. I also did a 20% water change today. I can already see a profound difference in the water quality. It is still cloudy, but improved. I will retest the tank water in a few hours to see where it is.

I also set up a q-tank and I am going to do a fishless cycle. I promise. Thanks again for helping a newbie aquarist in my time of need.

[Diana]

Set up a few test buckets with tap water + dechlor (no other additives) and the items you removed from the tank, perhaps one with just a rainbow rock, one with just a chunk of wood and one with both.
Test GH, KH, pH, and all the nitrogens every few days for a week or two, and look for cloudy water. I do not think you will see much foam unless you can agitate the water. Do you have a few air pumps?

[vealboy]

Set up a few test buckets with tap water + dechlor (no other additives) and the items you removed from the tank, perhaps one with just a rainbow rock, one with just a chunk of wood and one with both.
Test GH, KH, pH, and all the nitrogens every few days for a week or two, and look for cloudy water. I do not think you will see much foam unless you can agitate the water. Do you have a few air pumps?

That's a great idea, i do have 2 extra air pumps that I can use do do these controlled tests. Thanks for the tip!

When I got home from work, I noticed my tank is considerably less cloudy. Now that I can see from front to back thru the water, I am happy to report that there have not been any casualties thru this ordeal thus far.

[vealboy]

As the water quality improves, I found my pleco...I really don't remember him being this big!


OK so here is some progress: