My clown loach is very skinny, disease?

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Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

My clown loach is very skinny, disease?

Post by Aeonz » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:52 pm

Hi, about 1.5 months ago I bought two small clown loach at the LFS.. one of them thrives and his actually fat, the other one is very skinny i'm starting to see the bone structure. He seems to be eating, does not act strangely and is in fact less shy than the fat one. He looks exactly like this :

Image

I red a lil bit about this skinny disease and the recomended Erythromycin(maracyn 1) treatment. It is late here unfortunatly the only store still open was walmart so I bought the only anti-parasite stuff they had.

Its called Parasite Clear Tank Buddies, from Jungle.. Active ingredients: praziquantel; N-[[(N-Chlorophenyl)amino]carbon 1]-2,6-difluorobenzamide; metronidazole; acriflavine.


Any chance i can save him with just that or should I order some other stuff?? I really dont want him to die. This is the first time I've had a disease in my tank.

25g
Ph: 6,9
Kh: 2 º
Gh: 5,56 º
amonia : 0
nitrite : 0

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:48 pm

Hi Aeonz, welcome to Loaches.
Yes, these fish can get a combinations of problems that can result in this sort of problem. The best treatment seems to be a two-part approach.

These fish can get internal parasites AND have a bacterial issue going on at the same time.

Treatment is to alternate wormers and antibiotics.

If you can find Levamisol this is a great first medication. It boosts the immune system as well as helping against certain internal parasites. It is often sold as a sheep or pig wormer.

When one course of that is done, use an antibiotic. Not Maracyn (Erythromycin) by itself, though. This treats mostly Gram positive bacteria, and most fish diseases are Gram negative.
Maracyn combined with Maracyn II is a good way to go.
Kanamycin
Maracyn Plus
Tetracycline or one of its variations
Whichever you can find, use according to the directions.

Then clear the tank of that med, and repeat the wormer.
Some anti-parasite meds treat certain types of worms and not others. Prazi-pro is a good one, and some of the wormers sold for dogs and cats are good medicine for this problem in fish.

Then repeat the antibiotic

Then back to a wormer.

This alternating treatment takes a while. The specific directions vary with each medicine but your schedule will look something like this:

Few Days: Wormer
One Day: Clear it from the tank, and vacuum the substrate really well, some wormers do not kill the worms, and the fallen worms are not dead, and can re-indfest the fish.
A Week: antibiotics
One Day: clear it from the tank
Repeat.

Use the search feature here at Loaches using the terms
Skinny Disease
Levamisol
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Aeonz » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:15 pm

wow this sound like a nasty problem to get rid off.. thx alot for the reply i will try my best to cure the lil guy =( gonna check with my LFS tomorrow to see what they have in stock

Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Aeonz » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:34 pm

Any idea where i can order levamisol ? I live in Canada near Montreal.

Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Aeonz » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:04 pm

Diana ok i went to the lsf and they didnt have or knew about levamisol. The guy instead gave me some metronidazole. Do you know if it can be effective in this case? Would it be categorized as a wormer or an antibiotic??

natalia
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:36 am

Post by natalia » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:56 pm

That fish looks very bad. You have to treat him ASAP.
Metronidazole is not a dewormer but is effective against flagellates and some but not all bacteria. You need to use a dewormer in combination with Maracyn-2 plus maracyn as previously suggested.

Unfortunately, levamisole is not available from the pet stores. May be you could see a vet and get a prescription. Otherwise there are other dewormers that are used for dogs and cats that could work for fish but you need to research whether or not they will harm the fish. One drug which should be easier to find is fenbendazole. It is a dog dewormer and you probably can find it in pet stores or online under the names of Safe Guard or Panacur (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=13555). I have seen people use it in the tanks to get rid of planaria and hydra. If I were to treat my fish I would do it as recommended here (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... tanks.html).
Hopefully someone with more experience will be able to provide more info.
In a meantime feed his guy well (put him on a bloodworm diet). I hope he makes it.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:19 pm

Unfortunately Levamisol is getting harder to find.
Prazi-pro is good.
I am not sure if Metro is useful for this sort of problem. Since there is not a specific identified parasite or disease, but a general sort of "well there is probably a combination of issues" then using a wider spectrum product is better than a medicine that seems to have a limited range of action.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

natalia
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:36 am

Post by natalia » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:36 pm

I have red a bit more on the subject. The problem here is that you do not know what exactly is wrong with this fish. So for this guy to have any chance of recovery you need to make some guesses as to what would be the likely cause for his condition. If your fish is active and still eating then the most likely cause is the nematode infestation. These are internal worms that attach in the intestine and suck up all nutrients, so even though the fish eats it is not getting nutrition. This is very likely your case although other problems can not be excluded without tests.

If that was my fish I would first treat for nematodes and if that does not help swithch to other drugs. Praziquantel (main ingredient of PraziPro) is useless against the nematodes, but does treat other worms. Metronidazole will treat flagellates but fish that have flagellates exibit different symptomes such as bloated belly and unusual swimming pattern.

Actually Jungle Labs has a medicated fish food that combines all three anti-parasite drugs: levamisole, praziquantel and metronidazole (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12827). This should be available from a pet store and definitely online.

If you can not get it then try to get fenbendazole. You can order SafeGuard from DrsFoserSmith, at least I did few month ago. I searched the web and it looks like you can simply mix this drug in the food (for example soak blood worms in the drug solution) and feed this to your fish. Some people even recommend this over the levamisole treatment.

Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Aeonz » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:07 am

Ok now i found a guy that can send me some Levamisol, or I could order fenbendazol from this foster&smith site.. wich would you recommend???

Right now i am still continuing the parasite clear treatment just in case it can help.. i have one last dose to give in 48h , after wich i will switch to another med. I have metronidazole but i dont think i will use it.

The lil guy didnt come out today but i saw him in the morning when the lights were off. I feed only bloodworm in the tank and i put some in after i turn the lights off.

I will keep you guys informed .

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:26 am

Use a full treatment schedule with one wormer, then an antibiotic treatment, then use a different wormer. This makes sure that whichever group of worms might be there that they are killed.
It may be that you will need to repeat this sort of schedule because some parasites have a multi-phase life cycle and not all phases are susceptible to the meds.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

natalia
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:36 am

Post by natalia » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:53 am

Parasite Clear contains both praziquantel and metronidazole so that after you complete the treatment you can switch to dewormers.

I would use levamisole first if you can get it. It seems to be safe for clown loaches and there are many posts on this forum from people using this drug successfully.

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:52 pm

Definitely use either the levamisole or fenben asap. Then isolate the fish and do an antibiotic treatement with either Kanamycin or Maracyn I and II - if he makes it that far. Given the look of the picture you posted it may be too late. :cry:

What else is in the tank?
books. gotta love em!
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Aeonz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Aeonz » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:30 pm

RIP the skinny loach passed away before i got the levamisole

For future reference parasite clear and metronidazole were totally innefective .

I bought 2 new loach they are super active =)

Thx for all the help you guys are great

HSTurning
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:08 am
Location: New Hampshire

Post by HSTurning » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:14 pm

I treat all my new loaches with Levasole and keep them in quarantine for 4-5 weeks. I would still get the levasole and treat the whole tank. JMO
I need more tanks, more more more

fhm_usa
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Lakewood,Ca. USA

Post by fhm_usa » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:42 am

natalia wrote:I have red a bit more on the subject. The problem here is that you do not know what exactly is wrong with this fish. So for this guy to have any chance of recovery you need to make some guesses as to what would be the likely cause for his condition. If your fish is active and still eating then the most likely cause is the nematode infestation. These are internal worms that attach in the intestine and suck up all nutrients, so even though the fish eats it is not getting nutrition. This is very likely your case although other problems can not be excluded without tests.

If that was my fish I would first treat for nematodes and if that does not help swithch to other drugs. Praziquantel (main ingredient of PraziPro) is useless against the nematodes, but does treat other worms. Metronidazole will treat flagellates but fish that have flagellates exibit different symptomes such as bloated belly and unusual swimming pattern.

Actually Jungle Labs has a medicated fish food that combines all three anti-parasite drugs: levamisole, praziquantel and metronidazole (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12827). This should be available from a pet store and definitely online.

If you can not get it then try to get fenbendazole. You can order SafeGuard from DrsFoserSmith, at least I did few month ago. I searched the web and it looks like you can simply mix this drug in the food (for example soak blood worms in the drug solution) and feed this to your fish. Some people even recommend this over the levamisole treatment.
Which specific sageguard I saw different kinds of safeguard dewormer dogs,horse?...anyway with the medicated fish food I did not see the indrgnt levamisole on the web add only praz and metro? where can I see it? Thanks.

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