Question about possible case of Fish TB

[Tay690]

Hi there,

Recently I've had 3 mysteriously quick deaths in my Clown Loach tank...I have another question

The one clown is still alive (Lola) and she's looking ... I wouldn't say better but stable

She's not getting worse that's for sure...and she's actually eating again

As of right now the last casualties in my tank were about 2 weeks ago and she's still hanging in there

Her sunken side has stopped eroding further and I think it will fill back up as her appetite comes back more and more each day

Her spine is a little bent but not very noticeable

I just saw that thread SubRosa put up and I'm being extra careful (i'm always extra careful normally...but now after seeing that I'm taking no chances)

The question I have about Lola is...when (if at all) can I put her in a tank with other fish?

She's still in the problem tank...and the water I changed yesterday was so clean it looked like the water that was going into the tank lol

Some people were saying to keep her isolated for a month before adding her to another tank...but with Fish TB never going away...is this a good idea?

Currently she is the only one in the tank with a bunch of snails she seems to pick away at from time to time

What should i do here? I don't want to kill the fish or give it away...she seems content for the most part and I've actually got her used to me calling her and she comes right out of cave and dances around in the light

She really is a great fish...i just don't know what to do here

Do I keep this tank specifically for this fish only? Get rid of the fish and nuke the tank and start over? (Ideally I would like to nuke the tank...but if I can't add Lola to another tank ever...then I'd prefer to keep her rather than get rid of her)

Lil' help?

[Diana]

Diagnosing Mycobacteriosis cannot be done on a live fish, so it is not even sure that she has it.
Did you have any of the other fish autopsied to see if this was the problem?

If you are pretty sure that Mycobacteriosis is the problem, then it does suggest isolation, however, there are a couple of possible treatments. One involved Kanamycin, the other is UV sterilizer.

I would treat with the Kanamycin, treat for other possible issues (internal parasites... whatever) then set up a tank that you will always run a UV sterilizer on. Then you can add other fish with a good chance that they will not catch it. However, this then becomes a quarantined tank, so continue your safe handling practices, and never swap these fish out to another tank.

Kanamycin treatment:
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/articl ... iosis.html

UV sterilizer:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... -fish.html

[Tay690]

"Possible" case of Fish TB

Symptoms are as follows:

4 Clown loaches in total up until about 2 weeks ago

First one dies (she had a bent spine for about a month prior to her passing...she also had a sunken side between her belly and her tail fin...almost looked like there was no meat under her scales)

Next day another Clown loach is extremely bloated (I fed them...but they didn't eat anything at all...vacuum'd the garbage up 4 hours later) starts swimming irradically and gasping very quickly on the substrate

I got some meds but by the time I came home he was dead already

Biggest alpha clown starts irradic swimming and gasping very quickly...witnessed this for about 15 mins and found him dead about 4 hours later

Extremely bloated (although he didn't eat) no red markings on any of the fish or anything visible other than the bloating

Lola the 4th clown starts showing the same symptoms with the sunken side and a slightly bent spine

I figured she would die within' a couple of days but 2 weeks later she's still here...hiding a lot but she picks up snails from time to time as I see empty shells in the substrate daily...so she's eating snails...but nothing I feed her (Frozen bloodworms, Spirulina, Flakes, Kelp Flakes (Which she used to aggressively take from the surface) Veggie pellets, shrimp pellets, Zuchini)

Tried soaking in garlic guard and that doesn't help

Sorry for the essay...just wanted to give a little more insight into the order of the happenings and symptoms etc

If it's not fish TB what do you think it could be?

I won't say i'm 100% sure it's fish TB...you can never really be 100% sure or anything like you said

But the sunken side, Bent spine and the wicked sick rash I have on my left arm seem to fall perfectly into place (and yes I'm extra careful to wash very thoroughly after I've had my hand in the tank...I've seen some pictures and I don't want to end up like that...But I won't kill a fish that is fighting for it's life)

Hope that helps

[Diana]

...and the wicked sick rash I have on my left arm...

Please see a doctor and make sure you explain that you are a fish keeper with fish that are showing symptoms consistent with Mycobacteriosis, though it has not been confirmed by a veterinarian.

It does sound like these fish have been dying from Mycobacteriosis. However, none of us are veterinarians, and this cannot be diagnosed without opening the fish and examining their internal organs and special staining procedure of scrapings.

My recommendation above stands: If you want to try to save the fish there are some methods that are said to work. I have linked both treatment regimes above.

With the added info that you yourself have something that might be related to the problem these fish have, I would council sacrificing the last fish and having a proper autopsy done to confirm what the fish has in case it helps the doctor to diagnose and treat your rash. Ask the doctor to recommend how this should be done.

[Tay690]

I'm gonna try the Kanamycin first and hopefully see some improvements

The cheapest UV sterilizer I saw in LFS was $200

Might have to look into that in a couple of months (funds are pretty tight and my contract at work is about to end...i'm not even sure if I'll have a job in about a month - Network Administrator looking for work MCSA Cert lol)

Thanks Diana as always

I know it kind of seems like I'm a sucker for punishment wanting to keep this fish around...but they were my very first loaches...in fact this Clown was the very first Loach I ever had...and I REALLY want her to live as long as humanly possible...

I won't however subject her to any experiments or anything relatively close for that matter

If the Kanamycin doesn't seem to improve it...then I will get a UV sterilizer...if that doesn't fix her

Sadly I will put her down because I don't want her to suffer any more than she already has

Even now I can see her peaking out of her favourite cave at me



I will keep this updated as it progresses...I'm wondering if I should maybe take a log of this...pics / progress etc

There is almost no info about Fish TB on the net at all

and when you search it first thing that comes up is usually "Euthanize the affected fish"

I'm sorry but that's not much of a solution for me

Thank you sincerely,
Taylor

Edit: In case anyone is interested...some symptoms of Fish TB when contracted by humans and medications for treatment

I must warn you if you're squeemish...it's a little nasty so don't say I didn't warn you

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=199853

[Tay690]

Another quick question

Will Fish TB ever be able to be fully cured? I know the bent spine won't fix itself and all

But will the fish ever totally be rid of this illness? Even after meds etc?

Reason I'm asking is because guy at LFS yesterday said to throw 5 or 6 guppies in the tank as a test to see if they get sick...if they die then don't move the big clown

and he said even if they survive and don't show symptoms that I will never be able to put those guppies in any other tank...nor will I be able to move the clown out of that tank

I have 2 juvi clown loaches a 6 gold zebra loaches in my 125 display tank...and this big clown loach just looks so listless without buddies in the tank

What would you do in my situation? Kill the fish and nuke the tank? Fight for her? (To me she seems like she's desperately trying to hang on and she wants to live)

*sigh*

[Diana]

I have seen other pictures, possibly caused by the same or related organisms.
One was an internal growth on a finger joint that looked like a walled off tumor of some sort. If you have ever seen a Lipoma, it looked a bit like that.
Another looked like a surface sore or rash that had started to heal, then got worse over and over again. There was not any visible deeper tissue involved just looking at the one picture, but as if the wound was growing larger and bigger and piling on top of itself. Healing scabs flaking off in the middle, and red around the edges.