Velvet!?

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ahmandi2
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:43 am
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Velvet!?

Post by ahmandi2 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:02 am

We just lost one of our golden weather loaches. Also, lost our pleco, and a betta this morning. I didn't see the loach prior to it's burial. But I am the one who pulled this betta from the tank today. Picture attached. My other female betta has white areas around her gills. I'm sure the other loach is not looking well either, but she's hiding, probably missing her mate :(
I am so grateful that I was lurking this site for a while now, and found the article about clove oil for euthanization of fish....and had already purchased (and used!) it. It made today's betta issue an EENTSY bit easier to deal with.
We have a 55 gallon tank. We HAD 2 4 inch loaches, a small pleco (about four inches long), two female Betta, and five Danio. Also, it's a planted tank. The nitrates, um ammonia etc have all been tested and my husband says they're in appropriate ranges.
I'm pretty furious because every time something has gone wrong in this (our FIRST) aquarium, it's after a visit and purchase with our only local fish store. This has been a not only emotionally painful experience (yeah I cried when I found out about our loach, I love those guys, called em my "puppies"), but a financial cluster as well.
First fish in tank was my female betta. Fine, no worries with her. Got another a week later. Fine again. We bought plants. We bought loaches. We got ICH a few days after the plants came home. We beat it, one fish down. We got plants again. We got SNAILS as a freebie. -_- We got the pleco last week, from LFS. Now all our fish are going to die, and it's because this store is not right. I am SO angry at this woman. We want some money back from her, over a 100 for the fish and "cures!". So I guess I'll let my husband give her a talking too today, then I'll call and ease the sting a bit on her. My husband will probably have her in tears, and I usually try to calm him down and out of his Marine Drill Sergeant ways....but not this time. She deserves it.
Fish in exchange???? NO WAY. Just reimburse us a bit, or if not, at least change your ways so no more fish have to suffer. Grrrr.
A pic of what the betta I put down today looked like:
http://i.imgur.com/S7yvy.png
Thank you all, I am venting, but also hoping for some advice on what this problem seems to be. I am wondering maybe velvet? Fin rot (had some of that for the past few days on the sick fish).

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ahmandi2
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Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

My last betta dead now too.

Post by ahmandi2 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:22 am

Nurple succumbed to this disease today at 10:00. My favorite betta. Previous post explains. Danios are slowing down. I guess they're next.
The Lone Loach is still alive, and foraging for food bits. Maybe that's a hopeful sign..

glenna
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Location: Sanford, NC

Post by glenna » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:10 pm

I hate to say it, but your LFS person is NOT alone in her disregard to fish health. So many stores really only care about $$ and will sell ANYTHING to ANYBODY, sick or healthy, etc.
I have gotten to where I will only buy from one local store, about an hour away, and they just closed down!!!!

Now I am going to have to order online, and not at all sure how to do that, or if it is going to be any better.
I will definitely be using my two Qtanks!!!!!!!

Good luck getting any money back.
glenna

starsplitter7
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Location: Tampa, Florida

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:26 pm

I am so sorry for the loss of the fish. It does hurt. We need to respect all life, including fish. I am sure everyone here knows how you feel.

A few questions to help us help you.
1.) How long was the tank set up?
2.) How long was the tank cycled?
3.) How many inhabitants? and who did you have?
4.) What were the actual number readings for your tank. Temp?
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH? (What stores and the instructions tell you is okay, is often not okay).
5.) How did you do the test? Do you have your own kit? What type?
6.) What is your experience level?

I am a relatively new keeper, and I have done everything wrong at some point, and Ihave learned from my mistakes. I may be able to help you rebuild your tank, and if I can't someone else may be able to.

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ahmandi2
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:43 am
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

All the details :)

Post by ahmandi2 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:44 pm

Hi Starsplitter,
Thank you for the kind words! I knew I wasn't a *total* nut-job after seeing how attached some people get to those weird little guys, the loaches...whom I now ADORE.So, details...
Tank was set up about 2.5 months ago.
My husband used plants to cycle it for about 3 weeks (?)?
Nine.
We had (in total), two loaches. Two Betta FEMALES. Five zebra danios. And one perfect lil pleco...
55 gallon tank.
He does have a test kit, it is an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brand.
During the cycling, he did tests every day and wrote the info down on a graph. I do not know any numbers; I DO recall that he was confused that we didn't see any ammonia spikes. What that means, I'm not totally sure...
Beginners!

I've had a couple smallish tanks for Betta *and guppies, go figure), my Betta's lived a long time...just from luck I think.
So without giving you any actual stats, I guess I didn't really answer the question completely...but I did try lol...
Did you check out the picture of the fish I included? That was just one symptom! My *other* betta had big white scales all over her gills today. I didn't have the heart to put her under the flashlight like I had the other female today. The gills were an obvious and easily seen problem, but she could have had that weird brownish mark(s) on her as well...and fin rotting off....
Two things I didn't mention about the LFS. She grows plants in her store. She keeps the plants in tanks with fish. We bought the plants, we got ich.
Also, she sold my husband the pleco straight in the bag from the supplier; "Hey your fish is here!" and he went and picked it right up out of the shipping box she'd received. We got the pleco, and all the fish are dying.
Ugh. Clove oil....I'll never enjoy a pumpkin pie again. *weak laugh*

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ahmandi2
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Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Glenna :)

Post by ahmandi2 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:44 pm

Thank you for the response. How do you know which online places are recommended for purchasing fishes? I may be forced into that route, as well. I'd love to hear once you start stocking from them. I'll watch the forums!!
We decided to not even bother with the LFS that so disappointed us. My husband called her to find out if she had ANY clue what these weird symptoms might be, but no accusations were made. You're right. Good luck getting money back. It's just a lesson learned. Better now than, oh, 500 dollars worth of fish and enormous heartbreaks galore down the road.

starsplitter7
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:47 pm

To me it sounds like your tank wasn't completely cycled. The reason I asked about the readings is that f you are cycled you should read:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10

I keep a journal for all 8 of my tanks. I write down everything I do during water changes -- how much, did I rinse filters, change filters, vacuum gravel, . . . If I do my water readings, I write down TDS before and after, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH. If I add fish or lose fish, I write down what happened.

I have a quaratine tank and keep track of medication and a baby nursery right now.

With cycling as the ammonia (fish waste) increases there's a spike in ammonia, and then the good bacteria starts growing and eating the ammonia and changes it to Nitrite. Then there's a Nitrite spike. Another bacteria starts growing and eating the Nitrite, turning it in Nitrate. Then the nitrate increases. When you vacuum the gravel, the Nitrate decreases keeping it under 10. You can cycle without fish, but if there's no waste or ammonia in the water, then the bacteria is starved and dies off so there's no cycling. You can read about fishless cycling on here.

A quarantine tank is probably the most important accessory to keep from running into problems. You watch the fish a month or more and make sure it is healthy before putting it in the tank. Also add fish very slowly, so that the bacteria has time to grow to keep up witht he additional Ammonia. Your tank doesn't sound overstocked to me. I just think it wasn't properly cycled. Of course, I can be completely wrong.

Once your fish stop dying, disease is gone from the tank and your readings are back to Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate less than 10, then you can slowly begin to add fish again.

I wish you luck, and it will get easier.

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ahmandi2
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:43 am
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Seems the strong fish will all survive this...thank Goodness

Post by ahmandi2 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:44 am

Hello,
So after looking online at a fish supply rating site, we found one relatively nearby, and headed over there last night with our dead fish, and a water sample....1st thing the guy did a water test (which we'd done immediately prior to heading out). While doing the test, my husband said "OH no. Well I guess I did that one totally wrong..." He'd not been using the two different types of liquid when testing er, ammonia. Regardless, at THIS point, we've got a totally acceptable reading of everything...we use well water, it's very hard and minerally ( apparently), which seems not good for the loaches...
Matt (fish guy) didn't give me what I wanted, lol, an "Oh you have *This* and you need to do *this and that* and presto! Healthy tank". He spoke more about (yes) quarantine. Fish health when purchased. Where the fish COME from. Etc....
It makes sense, but I still am a wee bit bummed that we can't just cure all in one fell swoop.
Bright side, our little golden loach is awesome today, and we didn't lose any danios! So we will wait for a month to purchase any new fish. Also, has anyone tried using that ro water....reverse osmosis water...Matt suggested using it at the most 50% but he did suggest it.
At this point, we'll be switching LFS and possibly ordering online if that does not work out. The thing I loved about Matt, is that he had almost 50% of his tanks as dedicated quarantine tanks. A big expense, in the short term, but one I so appreciate. It gave me a bit more faith in him.

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Post by starsplitter7 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:07 am

You can also look into using peat to soften up your water. Do a search on here. There's lots of threads on how to do it.

My water is high in calcium, but I have a pH of 6-6.8 due too many organics.

Just remember that acceptable readings mean Ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0. Other readings will damage your fish. You will get a false positive with ammonia with many tests if you use Prime as a conditioner.

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