help!!! my neon tetras and clown loach has ick

[jordan]

hi i havent got a bulb in my tank at the mo it blow a few months ago and i used my kitchen bulb so thay had light and as i have just turend it on one of my clown loach has about 5 white spots on him and two of my neon tetras do too there only babys my clown loach and tetras i have got some waterlife protozin whitespot and fungus stuff i have just put about 3 or 4 dros in to my tank witch is 60 liters do you think thay will come throw or die as there small i also have a tetra tec crystal clear 300 filter and a little filter help!!! please

[starsplitter7]

DUring my last horrible ick, I lost my two oldest and biggest clowns. Made me sick to my stomach.

What temp is your tank? Temp should be at least 82 F or 28 degrees C.

Increase the oxygen. The more oxygen they have, the easier it is for their compromised lungs to get oxygen. I add extra air stones and I lower the water level if I have a ang on the back filter, so the water hits the surafe of the tank water.

Did you read the ick stickie for treating ick with loaches?

Use medication at half strength for loaches.

[jordan]

hi thanks for replying and sorry that your two of your loachs have died throw it god hope mine dont i think thay make my tank lol and i have the heater in the tank on 30 somthing i will lower the water if you think that will help and i didnt have a look at the meds to be honist but it has got clown loachs on the bottol so i think it should be ok with them :/ would you surgest doin more water changers while i am treating them or just do my water changers like i normal do once a week.

[jordan]

DUring my last horrible ick, I lost my two oldest and biggest clowns. Made me sick to my stomach.

What temp is your tank? Temp should be at least 82 F or 28 degrees C.

Increase the oxygen. The more oxygen they have, the easier it is for their compromised lungs to get oxygen. I add extra air stones and I lower the water level if I have a ang on the back filter, so the water hits the surafe of the tank water.

Did you read the ick stickie for treating ick with loaches?

Use medication at half strength for loaches.

hi thanks for replying and sorry that two of your loachs have died throw it. god hope mine dont i think thay make my tank lol and i have the heater in the tank on 30 somthing i dont have a thermomiter in the tank i keep meaning to get one. just passes my head what would you surgest on what number i should put the heater on ? i will lower the water if you think that will help and i didnt have a look at the meds to be honist. it has got clown loachs on the bottol tho so i think it should be ok with them :/ would you surgest doin more water changers while i am treating them or just do my water changers like i normal do once a week.

[starsplitter7]

With most products you treat at half dose, and follow the rest of the instructions on the bottle. It will usually say how often to do water changes. Make sure the temp is at least 82 and drop the water level. My clowns shows no signs of stress, but they died. I ended up treating two tanks for the ick (I had about 11 at the time). You need as much oxygen in the water as possible. Ick often enters the gills compromised their breathing.

[jordan]

thanks for all your help i have droped the water level a bit so the bubbles are comeing from the filter and also i have a little filter in there as well that makes bubbles and movement of the water and i will look at the back of the med i have put about 3 or 4 drops in today thay all look fine at the mo but like you say yours was ok no stress et but later died i have also turned the heater up too thanks for everything again ya big a big help i will let you know how it all goes hopefully good lol thanks again

[millsn]

If you can afford it get a UV steriliser too

[jordan]

If you can afford it get a UV steriliser too

hi millsn iv bee told not to use a uv steriliser by a pet shop thay said if i have one to turn it off dont ask why lol becuse i dot know myself i didntthink to ask wish i did now tho lol but my fish are all doin fine at tho momment touch wood mostof the spots have gone will give it another week and i think the ick will be all gone but think i will still treat them even if thay have gone for another week just to be safe

[jordan]

just to let you all know my clown loachs and neon tetras have go rid of the ick and all is happy and healthy again im now droping the temp once everyday inill i get back to the normal tank temp again i am also goin to put some more trement in the tank for two more days then i will stop that too just to make shureall the ick is deffo gone thanks for all your help

[KittyKat]

If you can afford it get a UV steriliser too

hi millsn iv bee told not to use a uv steriliser by a pet shop thay said if i have one to turn it off dont ask why lol becuse i dot know myself i didntthink to ask wish i did now tho

The usual reasoning is that if the fish have absolutely nothing to keep their immune systems on tip toes, the moment one stops using UV, the fish will be a lot more susceptible to anything in the water. UV will also mask signs of problems such as some algaes, which means you might not realise that you actually have a problem.

[millsn]

Well you can test the water for underlying quality problems so I'm not sure that stands up as good reasoning. As I understand it the UV kills free swimming white spot critters so must be good. If they can't stay alive once bred they can't attach to a fish.

[KittyKat]

Well you can test the water for underlying quality problems so I'm not sure that stands up as good reasoning.

Hobby test kits will not test for everything though. For example, they will not test for algae which cause green water (this can be a warning about non-water borne algae problems to come, over-fertilisation, overfeeding); they will not test for ammonia amounts which are small enough to cause bacterial blooms, but enough to harm some species of fish.

As I understand it the UV kills free swimming white spot critters so must be good. If they can't stay alive once bred they can't attach to a fish.

That's exactly the point: it kills most things which are in the water. This includes whitespot, fungi, bacteria, etc… so if the fish is not exposed to these, what will its immune system be like? Especially given that to some extent one's immune system corresponds to stimulus. And what about the bacteria and fungi which have positive effects on the system?

Will you agree with me that a UV steriliser can not kill everything in the water in one go, only that which is in the water that is currently passing through it? So what is the likelihood of it being ably to kill every single theront? Very little, I imagine, given ich is free swimming only for a short period of time between when it is attached to decor and when it attaches to the fish. So how effective is UV at removing all the ich compared to medication? After all, medication affects *all* the water, while UV only whatever is passing through it at the time.

Medication is also relatively targeted compared to UV.

I don't see any problems with using UV for treatment, in combination with other products or on its own, but the downsides of continuous use outweigh the benefits from what I can see.

[jordan]

have you all seen my pics i have put up of the neons and my clown loach

[KittyKat]

have you all seen my pics i have put up of the neons and my clown loach

Yep, did you see me comment?

[millsn]

Glad to hear your fish are okay now Jordan.

It's an interesting discussion Kittikat (like the user name BTW).

Given your later point that UV can't 'get' everything in the tank I'm not sure how valid. I'd like to point out that my views below are those of a layman but I'm putting them out there because I find it interesting.

So here goes, if the UV doesn't kill everything in the tank then there's still a stimulus. That said, in my case my pH is 7.5 yet I would guess that in the natural environment, and in low pH water the content of ich is pretty low anyway. The issue in the tank is that everything stands the chance of getting concentrated be it ammonia/nitrate/protozoans etc. No doubt this is less of an issue in the wild for all kinds of reasons. In the case of my tank it gets no UV (ie sunlight) other than the steriliser I use which as you say can only help maintain but is almost certainly not a solution in itself once you have affected fish.

In my case treatment consisted of hoovering the sand, running a UV and treating with protozin simultaneously. My complaint was with the advice this chap has received from his local shop. I you have a ich problem why would you not run the UV you have to get it back under control, even if you thought it would only have some effect? As to running it permanently, personally, I think it's a sound idea to kill off the ich whenever you can in such a closed system.