bent spine

[glenna]

I have a lovely SAE who has been acting weird (breathing fast, laying on the bottom), so I put him/her into Q and noted as I did so, that his spine is somewhat bent. No other marks, eyes are clear, no spots, lesions or fin abnormalities. Now that he is out of the main tank and getting treatment, breathing normally. I am afraid he has mycobacteria and that this is why his spine is bent. I REALLY want it to be something more treatable.
There was an angelfish in that tank that had some white tufts on the tips of her long fins, and she died, so initially I thought he might have a fungus, so am treating with "fungus-cure (acraflavine/Victoria green). His breathing has improved with that, but it may be a secondary infection.

please tell me there is an alternative explanation!

[starsplitter7]

I can't help you, sorry. I would do what you're doing. Make him comfortable. Extra clean water. GOod filtration. I had a Danio with a bent spine. First found her thought she would die ina couple days. She lived another 18 months. After 3 months in the Q tank I put her back in the main.

[KittyKat]

How old is it? What are the dimensions of the tank it usually lives in? Does it often try to hide in caves/under decor? How active is it normally? What are your water parameters? Has it ever been exposed to ammonia, nitrite or any diseases? When did you last add fish, plants or something like that to the tank?

How long did you have the angel for and were there any other symptoms around death?

[glenna]

a little more info:
- the bent fish is about 1 and a half years old and normally is housed in a 75 gallon tank. He is currently stable and doing okay in quarantine and I have not retreated after the prescribed doses of "fungus cure". I think it is a "she" and she is eating and breathing normally, albeit with somewhat bent spine.
I am still not sure where to go at this point. There is definitely SOMETHING going on in that tank, but I am not sure what.

There have been some other strange illnesses, deaths (maybe three in the past year) in that tank and it is puzzling. These were guppies, just randomly found dead one day floating, not all at the same time, and of course, the angel fish. Also, one or two of the living guppies also have a somewhat bent spine, but seem fine. The guppies were the most recent additions but they were overflow from another tank where I made the mistake of putting male and female guppies together, so were "home grown". That tank had been very stable.
I have not added any new fish to that tank in over at least a year. Sometimes after a water change I have noticed some rapid breathing, esp in the bottom dwellers, but then it passes, so I have attributed this to just stress associated with the weekly "sunami". I always check and match temp of the incoming water (PRime treated tap) and check to ensure the TDS is within 50 before making the change.
. Everyone eats well,
The angel fish was one of those veil tailed beauties with long, flowing fins. There was a white tuft at the end of one of those fins (it really looked like fungus, but I am not the most experienced fish keeper) and I was able to just pull it off and it never came back. That was 6 to 8 weeks ago. She never acted sick or breathed fast. What actually lead to the angelfish's demise was a tank decor tragedy. There had been a nice log in the tank that the loaches loved - they would zoom through it and hide, fight over the choice spots inside there. IT had a large hole on one end and a smaller one out the top. The angel had gotten inside and tried to squeeze itself out the smaller hole. The angel had been in there for over a YEAR and never even went down by the log, but I think I must have spooked it during a water change. By the time I found her, she had damaged herself quite badly. I tried to get her through, but despite separation, medication and perfectly clean water in quarantine, she succumbed. The log has since been removed.

- other inhabitants: 3 yoyos, 1 angel, 1 other SAE, 7 F guppies, 1 synondontis multipunctatus (sp?), 3 rubber lip pleco and about 5 pepper corys.

- gravel substrate, live plants, filtration provided with a rena filstar XP4, UV sterilizer (submariner 9V), driftwood and store bought fake "logs" made for aquarium use

- parameters: temp 78F
pH 6.8, KH 40, GH 75, nitrite 0, nitrate 15, ammonia 0

I do 40-50% water changes once weekly and check parameters about that often, but have been checking more frequently recently

I will try and post some pics this weekend

[glenna]

oh, and to answer a couple more of your questions KK,
she does hide quite a bit, but it is a fairly heavy planted tank

and I have added plants to the tank and do so regularly from one of my other tanks where the plants go insane and grow like weeds. No one in that tank is acting sick at all (that is where all the male

sorry for such a long answer

[Diana]

There have been some other strange illnesses, deaths (maybe three in the past year) in that tank and it is puzzling. These were guppies, just randomly found dead one day floating, not all at the same time, and of course, the angel fish. Also, one or two of the living guppies also have a somewhat bent spine, but seem fine.

I think this is the key.

Mycobacteriosis can weaken the fish so that they die of 'something else', almost anything else, or die with no apparent symptoms.

Other reasons for a bent spine:
Nutrient deficiency, especially when they are juveniles. This might affect the home grown Guppies if the food was old or not a good rotation of nutritious foods. Rare for several store bought fish to get this, though single fish can sure show it. Can also show up later in life, and then several older fish might present the same problem.

Injury. Usually a single fish will show up. Very rare for several fish all to get the same injury.

Genetic problem. Again, unless you buy a group of siblings, store bought fish will only show up singly in the tank with this. A group of home bred fish might show it, if they have been bred from a small gene pool, and inbred (breeding closely related fish)

I also have had long finned Angles get a little fin rot or fungus at the tips of their fins. I have treated them with Melafix and Pimafix, and increased the water changes. I sometimes wonder if fish bred for extra long fins have reduced circulation at the tips, and are maybe a bit more susceptible to that sort of thing. Anyway, it is easy to fix if you catch it soon enough.

Other symptoms that show up more often in MB: Odd sores on the lips, face or anywhere on the fish, usually the body, not so much the fins.

The proper way to diagnose MB is to examine the internal organs of the fish. There is a special stain that will color the affected parts. If there is a vet near you that has anything to do with fish that would be the person to ask.

[glenna]

thanks so much for the detailed response

after what I have read here, and what I have read elsewhere, I am afraid I might really be dealing with MB (boo!, hiss!)
I have eight tanks going right now and NONE of this weird bent spine, random death stuff going on in any of the others. I really work hard to keep clean and well maintained tanks so I do not think poor water quality is an issue, I feed a variety of foods so doubt nutritional problems (rats).
I have separate stuff (hoses, bucket,etc) for that tank so hopefully I have not spread anything to my others. It seems that MB is fairly ubiquitous in water so I am not really sure HOW contagious it is from tank to tank ( I know humans can get it and have my hands in the tank constantly....yikes!, but no sores or nodules so far . ), or WHY this outbrak occurred if it is indeed MB.
I have read about kanamycin as a potential, though not perfect treatment, which would be a big commitment as the course of treatment is long. I am certainly willing if need be, but will work toward a more definitive diagnosis, and learning about other options. I read about simply removing and "disposing of " fish with bent spines but am NOT willing to do that!!!.Maybe I will have to set up a TB sanatorium tank!
The local vet school has a good fish dept, I think, and they are only about an hour away.
I guess I was just hopeful since the SAE seemed to get better with the "fungus cure" that there would be a more palatable explanation.I am guessing she has responded to treatment of secondary infection.
I really appreciate the help in thinking through this problem

Anyway, I will work this more and get back for anyone interested
Thanks!

[KittyKat]

Diana got to it before me, but the symptoms do sound consistent with Mycobacterium infections, if there is no other explanation.

[Lucia80]

I have a five gallon tank with two zebra danios. After returning from a trip, I noticed that one of the danios had a bent spine which has gotten slightly worse in the past weeks. He also looks very skinny and swims at the top of the tank and appears to be struggling to move. I know I should have started asking around sooner, but I thought he'd go back to normal soon. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong with my fish and what I can do to help? I've had them for 4 years, so maybe it's just age, but I'd like to help if I can.

[KittyKat]

I have a five gallon tank with two zebra danios. After returning from a trip, I noticed that one of the danios had a bent spine which has gotten slightly worse in the past weeks. He also looks very skinny and swims at the top of the tank and appears to be struggling to move. I know I should have started asking around sooner, but I thought he'd go back to normal soon. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong with my fish and what I can do to help? I've had them for 4 years, so maybe it's just age, but I'd like to help if I can.

I would put it down to a tank which is too small. I think that zebra danios should never be kept in any tank which is under 3 ft long, and ideally should have a 4 ft or longer tank because of their activity level and ability to swim fast… also, zebra danios are a shoaling species, so I consider 6 to be an absolute minimum and 10-15+ a realistic minimum for the numbers which should be kept.

[ClownLoachSharky]

Thats for sure kittykat!