clown loaches and ick

This forum is for all health-related questions on Loaches and other freshwater fish.

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:32 am

Hi everyone this is my first post, years ago I was really into aquariums and when i bought my house, because of lack of time and funds I got out of it, now recently my love has re-kindled in the forum of a 32 gallon tank,(I know its to small for clowns, I'm working on that one) let me tell you it's good to be back, and I have discovered clown loaches, my problem is i recently introduced a couple of loaches into my tank, without qting them now I have ick, while it doesn't seem to severe (loaches seem to be eating and swimming fine) I would like some input on my treatment process, when i first noticed it last Friday i slowly raised the temp from 76 to 84 on sat i did 20% pwc then began with a tablet and a half of Tetra Ick Gaurd, so everyday since then(5 days now) I have been doing 20%pwc and medication while it seems like it might be slightly better should i continue on with this regiment, or is there another route i should be taking, any input is greatly appreciated.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by Diana » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:31 pm

Ich lands on the fish as a single cell, too small to see, and grows for a few days before you can see it.
When you add medication it should stop the single celled form from landing on the fish, but the ones that are already on the fish continue to grow for a few days. So it looks like the Ich is continuing to spread for 3-4 days after you start the meds. This is normal. It is not spreading. Those 'new' ones are really the Ich that got on the fish before you started the medicine. From here on out though, you should see fewer and fewer Ich organisms as they fall off the fish. You need to keep the medication in the water for at least 3 days beyond the day you saw the last spot on the fish. That last spot will fall off and try to breed. The medicine needs to be there to kill the single celled babies that last Ich makes.

If, on the other hand, the Ich population is continuing to grow more and more, beyond the first week (at your temperature I would only wait 3-4 days), then the medicine is not doing its job. Change medicine, or increase the dose (if you are using half dosing because of sensitive fish)
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:31 pm

Ok just to update 7 days now 20% water change everyday and re-treatment, temps are at 82-85 and they still have it, its not worse but about the same, I'm on my second box of tetra ick gaurd wondering if i should quit using that, and start with Kordons Rid-ich plus disease treatment and what would the dose be (half or full strength?)

EmilyMarie85
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:22 pm
Location: Boise, ID USA

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by EmilyMarie85 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:28 pm

I've used Kordon's when the salt/heat method didn't work. I dosed per instructions on the bottle and that worked fine for me. Even have a BGK in with my clowns and it didn't phase him.

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:49 pm

Well i lost one of loaches this afternoon and two more are hanging out in the log where i found the dead one, funny thing is the 3 mollies and the 3 zebra danioes are showing no sign of ick, I,m at a loss as to what to do now maybe a U.V. filter? I also switch to the kordons

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:45 am

So here is where I'm at, lost another clown this morning, yesterday i began using the Kordon's half dose in the am half in the pm, last two loaches are just loaded with it, but the other fish have none, weird. If I end up losing these last 2 clowns do i continue to treat the tank even if other fish show no signs?

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:45 am

Well the last 2 clowns died, what a shame, I dont know what i could have done differently, I need some advice on what to do now, since i noticed the ick 9 days ago none of my other fish (3 mollies 3 zebra daioes) have showed any sign of it and still don't should i continued to treat my tank for a couple more days?

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by Diana » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:39 am

Keep up the treatment.
Ich can hide in the gills, so even fish that appear not to have any might be carrying some.

Mollies are highly tolerant to salt, Danios are OK with it.
Are there other species in the tank?
I would add salt @ 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons every day for 3 days. Dissolve the salt in water and pour this in over several hours. At the end of 3 days you will have 3 tablespoons per 10 gallons, a fairly high level of salt for fresh water fish.

Keep up the water changes, emphasizing gravel vacuuming. Ich falls off the fish (especially when the fish die in the tank) and reproduce on the floor of the tank. Vacuum really well to remove these fallen Ich organisms.

Do not combine UV with medications. The UV light can break down medicines. This is especially true if the meds are labeled 'turn off tank light'. But I would bet that just about all meds (not salt) will be broken down by UV.

By 9 days I would sure have expected the Ich population to be going down (as seen on the fish). At temps in the 80s, these Ich that you see today probably just got on the fish a couple of days ago, suggesting whatever meds (Tetra) was not doing the job.

Here is more info for future Ich outbreaks:
1) Quarantine ALL new fish, NO EXCEPTIONS for at least 1 month. Treat as needed for whatever disease/parasite, then start the clock for 1 month after the medicine is cleared from the tank.

2) More Ich info at these sites:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa041
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ciliates
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/ridich/index.htm

That last site (Kordon) used to have a library with more Ich info. Search around there to see if it is still there. That library article says there are more than one type of Ich, some are resistant to certain medications, and are very persistent and hard to kill.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:58 am

thanks for the help well i pulled out everything but my live plants and vacuumed the hell out of it especially where i found the dead fish (which by the way were side by side, so sad) did a 40% w/c and added full dose of meds and slowly am adding salt, I'm also wondering if i should keep the light off, and will the salt do any harm to the filter bacteria, and absolutely i wont add another fish that is not QTed

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by Diana » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:05 am

Lights may be on or off. If you have live plants, lights on. If the fish are stressed, lights off.
If you are using Rid Ich, I would turn the lights off. (and move the plants to a bowl of water or whatever- not another tank with fish of course)

Salt is not a problem for filter bacteria. Monitor the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, of course, but since more water changes are in order, these should keep the levels of these toxins low, in case anything does happen to the bacteria. I do not see that it should, though.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:32 am

ok will do thanks again for the help

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:24 am

Ok to update my situation, its been 24hrs since I found the last 2 loaches dead yesterday, so far so good the mollies and danioes and bn pleco all show no signs of ick gonna do wc and re-dose this am and keep up the salt dose :D

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by Diana » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:45 pm

That is good news, to see no Ich. Keep up the good work!
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

uncleglenny
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by uncleglenny » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:15 pm

Update - It's been 48 hours since my last clown died 20% w/c and salt and dosing with rid-ick so far so good all fish seem to be fine, one thing that puzzles me is my nitrate levels seem to be slightly elevated 10ppm, its usually around 5, after doing 2 weeks straight of w/c's i would think that level should be lower. After the salt dosing, do I have to bring them down in salt dosage? Like say 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons for a couple days till I get to zero salt

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: clown loaches and ick

Post by Diana » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:51 pm

When you are ready to remove the meds from the tank do this:
2 water changes of 50%, about 12 hours apart.
Add a full dose of salt to the new water.
Add activated carbon to the filter. Change the AC after about 24-48 hours.

Return to your regular water change schedule, if other parameters (Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) say it is OK.

Lower the salt level slowly, over about a month.
If your normal water change schedule was weekly, not more than 25% then just add about half the salt for about 2 water changes, then no more salt. Gradually the salt level will go down. If you do more frequent water changes, or larger water changes you might have to add perhaps 3/4 of the salt for a couple of water changes, then half the salt for a few more, then 1/4 or something similar. Spread out the reduction in salt so it goes down gradually.

If you still need to do more water changes to lower the ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, then you may have to do a bit of math, but the goal is not to drop the salt level too fast, so keep adding a bit of salt with each water change.

Here is one possible explanation of rising nitrates:
You had some fish die. Maybe they were not removed the instant they died. They started releasing ammonia the instant they died. This ammonia was removed by your colony of beneficial bacteria (so you did not see the temporary blip in ammonia level) and ultimately ended up as nitrate.
This is good. It means the bacteria have not been affected by the medications or salt, and are still on duty removing the fish waste.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests