Hello, I am new and can't be more excited to see a forum for the fish we have all grown to love. Let me give you a little history on my Loach experience. I like sea clown fish, and always wanted to make a salt water tank to keep clown fish in. Well, I got a 29 gallon tank for Christmas and was happy as can be, but instead of spending a lot of money to start a salt water aquarium, I thought I would first go with a fresh water setup and gain some experience with aquariums. So what did I do? I rushed right into the process not thinking about it, and with no help from any of the pet stores I went too. No one told me about the tank cycle process and no one told me about the fish I was buying. I thought it would be OK for my aquarium to buy any fish that was small in size and community! The Clown Loach caught my eye, because they almost look like the Clown Fish of the sea!
Well, I bought 2 clown loach fish right away! Along with 4 dwarf Gouramis, 1 big Gouramis, 5 glow fish, 2 mollys, 2 sword tails, and a Plecostomus. I also bought a lobster, but I took him back because he was snapping at the fish. So here I am with an over population of fish in an uncycled tank. What could go Wrong? :-p One sword tail died first, followed by both mollys, I went ahead and added another big blue Gouramis, which with the other big gouramis killed the 4 dwarf gouramis. The one sword tail lasted for a long time, but it died when I went on vacation. I did add safe start to my tank, and with every water change I add a cap full of bio-boost. I never put salt in my tank (I do now), so I had learned A LOT by mistakes. Somehow my two clowns that I had bought at 1in each made it though the cycle process. My tank is only around 7 months old now, and my clowns are growing out of the tank. Again I wish the pet shop owners would tell people size requirements. Especially to new people like me that are excited to have a tank and not take the time to look up correct tank sizes for fish.
Now, as of two days ago I had to remove the older decorations for my fish because the Clowns are getting big, and they need new hiding spaces. I put in a large plastic fake looking tree branch with larges openings, and two real rocks in a cave kind of set up. I believe by removing their old hiding place, I had upset them a lot because they now have ICK!! I am scared to death for them. I noticed the white spots the DAY OF replacing the tank decorations, and went to the pet store right away (I found a good pet store with people that will tell people what to do and not do, I trust their word! and I am glad I found this place). I had asked a question on Yahoo comments and no one has given me a good answer, so this is why I am here. :-p This is the question I had asked, and I want your advice!!
"As of now I have a 29 gallon fish tank, I am going to upgrade to a 75 gallon in the next four months so my two Clown's I have now can live out there 15 years in a big enough tank being they get 10 to 12 inches. I love my Clown's, I had purchased them when I started the tank, (Yea thanks Pet smart) I didn't take the cycle process into account, but I did get "Safe Start" and I did water changes every week and all my clown fish made it though. My tank is now established and has been for a good 8 months. I added bio boost with every water change, and aquarium salt. So that is my tank, now on to the issue at hand.
I had to replace a few objects in my tank because the Clown's are getting bigger and I don't want them to get stuck in the old decorations. So I changed over half the tank, with new hiding places and real rock and a plastic fish decoration with many caves. It should be a Loach DREAM, but I believe the change over really stressed them out and one got ICK. I went to the pet store right away (It literately developed that day and I started treating that day). I am using "Nox-ICH" and "Acriflavine MS" and of course "Aquarium Salt" to treat the ICK, I have also turned the water temp up to 84 degrees F. My Clown's were in hiding for almost a day and half. Now they are out and both have it (I kind of figured the other would get it, being they huddle next to one another). The good news is it's not as profound now, the white spots are now faded on the one Clown that had it first and the other Clown does not look like he has a lot of white spots and they are faded already. Both are swimming without issue and playing in the bubbler as we speak. They look healthy, and looks like they are having the time of their lives swimming down the bubbler and letting it float them to the top before they swim down again.
I guess my question is simple, It's the 2nd day of my treatment out of the 4 day treatment plan (I am doing half doses for the clowns). Am I in the clear as far as their health now? I don't want them to die, I had them when they were really small and I take pride in their growth. I was planing on adding two more small ones in the next week (Before they got ICK), because I know they like 4 or more and it's healthier for them to be in a group of at least 4. How long after the treatment should I wait to introduce the other Clowns, and do you think two more would be a problem as of now due to my tank size of 29 gallons? Like I said in 4 to 5 months we are going to upgrade to a permanent home of 75 gallon tank for the 4 to 5 Clowns I plan on keeping. I was just wondering if more tank mats for my Clown's would be good for them now, so they can get acquainted with one another.
As of now I have 5 Glow fish, 2 large Gouramis, and 1 Plecostomus. The Plecostomus is getting big and I want to keep him, that's why I am going to upgrade the tank as well. I know they get lazy when they get bigger, but he is a cool looking fish regardless. :-p
With that said, would adding the three extra Clown's (Small ones) be good for my other Clown's now? Or should I just wait for the 75 gallon? With the 75 gallon tank I am going to keep the fish I have now and add the three Clown's. My wife and I wanted to add 2 discus fish as well (I know the water needs to be perfect for the discus fish). That's all we want in the 75 gallon tank, do you all think that would be a good community and big enough?
In summery (Sorry, I wrote a book), Are my Clowns out of the "Danger Zone" with the ICK? What follow up treatment should I use after the four day treatment plan (should I keep my water at 84 degrees for at last 10 days more)? Will adding three more small Clown Loaches be OK for my 29 gallon tank, and will the planed 75 gallon community be OK for that tank size?
Thanks for the help on the matter, the most important part is my Clown's health, I really like watching my Clown's play around. I bought them when they were so small and they are bigger now, they freaked me out at first doing all the weird things clowns do. :-p
Additional Content:
One of my Clown's is now just hanging out vertically on the side of the tank. He was just sitting there vertical about in the middle. It seemed fine, I opened the lid to feed my fish. He came off the corner really fast to eat. Never seen any of them do this before, I figure it's just a Clown being a Clown, because he is swimming fine now eating and he was playing the bubbler earlier just fine."
Hello!! ICK!!
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Update:
I read a lot on here, and will no longer put salt in my tank. I am still using Nox-Ich to clear this problem up, and I only put one dose of the Acriflavine in. Also would I be better off with a 100 gallon tank for my clowns if they make it or would a 75 gallon tank be Ok for their life span along with the two Discus I plan on adding? Again, all I want is 5 Clown loaches, 2 Gouramis, 5 glow fish, and 1 Plecostomus in my new tank set up.
Also why do every Clown Loach place say they need 20 gallons minimal for their tank? It didn't take me long to learn that is WRONG!!
I read a lot on here, and will no longer put salt in my tank. I am still using Nox-Ich to clear this problem up, and I only put one dose of the Acriflavine in. Also would I be better off with a 100 gallon tank for my clowns if they make it or would a 75 gallon tank be Ok for their life span along with the two Discus I plan on adding? Again, all I want is 5 Clown loaches, 2 Gouramis, 5 glow fish, and 1 Plecostomus in my new tank set up.
Also why do every Clown Loach place say they need 20 gallons minimal for their tank? It didn't take me long to learn that is WRONG!!
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
I would not get any more fish right now.
Get the new tank set up, (a 100 gallon is better) and the current fish moved over.
Then use the 29 as a quarantine tank so that when you get new fish they can be monitored and treated before going into the main tank.
Clown Loaches: Better in a group, but usually accepting of new Clown Loaches. Not too territorial. Clown Loaches: 20 gallon minimum volume of water for each fish, and best in a group of about half a dozen or more. This comes out to over 100 gallons minimum tank size to keep them. The wording on the store labels is not very clear. (They would not sell many fish if it was so clearly worded)
Gouramis: Only one per tank. Very territorial toward each other, and some Gouramis can be aggressive toward other species that swim lower in the tank. The 3-spot and Dwarf Gouramis do this regularly enough that I have seen several posts about it. Pearl, Moonlight and Honey Gouramis are less aggressive that way. Female 3-spot Gouramis are less aggressive, and just as colorful.
Glowfish (altered Zebra Danios) have the same personality as the original fish. Good in a larger school, may be a bit nippy in smaller groups. If you like this fish, then aim for perhaps a dozen minimum in the larger tank. The original species is a cooler water fish, not a good tank mate with Clown Loaches or Discus. (I am not sure if the altered variety is OK in that much warmer water)
Get more experience with fish before getting Discus.
Ich can live and reproduce for several days beyond the day you saw the last spot on the fish. Keep up the medication for several days to a week after all the fish are clear of Ich.
Salt (sodium chloride) is a fine thing to add temporarily to help some fish with stress. Low level is 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons, and that is OK for live plants and most fish. Do not keep salt in there all the time.
Get the new tank set up, (a 100 gallon is better) and the current fish moved over.
Then use the 29 as a quarantine tank so that when you get new fish they can be monitored and treated before going into the main tank.
Clown Loaches: Better in a group, but usually accepting of new Clown Loaches. Not too territorial. Clown Loaches: 20 gallon minimum volume of water for each fish, and best in a group of about half a dozen or more. This comes out to over 100 gallons minimum tank size to keep them. The wording on the store labels is not very clear. (They would not sell many fish if it was so clearly worded)
Gouramis: Only one per tank. Very territorial toward each other, and some Gouramis can be aggressive toward other species that swim lower in the tank. The 3-spot and Dwarf Gouramis do this regularly enough that I have seen several posts about it. Pearl, Moonlight and Honey Gouramis are less aggressive that way. Female 3-spot Gouramis are less aggressive, and just as colorful.
Glowfish (altered Zebra Danios) have the same personality as the original fish. Good in a larger school, may be a bit nippy in smaller groups. If you like this fish, then aim for perhaps a dozen minimum in the larger tank. The original species is a cooler water fish, not a good tank mate with Clown Loaches or Discus. (I am not sure if the altered variety is OK in that much warmer water)
Get more experience with fish before getting Discus.
Ich can live and reproduce for several days beyond the day you saw the last spot on the fish. Keep up the medication for several days to a week after all the fish are clear of Ich.
Salt (sodium chloride) is a fine thing to add temporarily to help some fish with stress. Low level is 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons, and that is OK for live plants and most fish. Do not keep salt in there all the time.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Thank you for the Advice Diana!
I have decided to spend a 150 more to get a 110 gallon set up. I figured what's the point of a 75 gallon when a 110 gallon is only 150 more. This comes with a Fluval canister filter for a 110 gallon tank, a heater, 110 pounds of gravel (going to get the kind that they can dig in), a bunch of start up chemicals, starter food, a stand, and lighting.
The basics, and the decorations I would have to get myself, which is fine.
My plan for this tank is as follows. I am going to buy about 150 ponds of rock for the tank, and make caves with the rock for the clown's to play in. Depending on how much 150 pounds of rock can go in a 110 gallon tank I plan on using a fish safe silicon to glue some rocks together to make some bigger caves for them. I wouldn't want the rock to fall and hurt my fish, or worse break the tank and kill all my fish. I also plan on using fake plants, I had used live plants in my tank with bad results. They make a BIG mess, and it's always a 50/50 debate over which is better for aquariums. I am thinking about that Japanese ball looking thing, throwing some of them in there as I would get the benefits of a live plant without the mess. I am also going to get a water jet for them to swim in, to make a current for them. Not a BIG one, but something they can play in and swim against. With your information I will wait until I get the new tank and than add the new clowns in, and I will buy about five more which if both of my clowns live will equal 7 in the 110 gallon tank. Also I am going to buy a 5 gallon small set up tank, and put the glow fish in there that I have. I am not going to move them to the bigger tank. The 2 Gouramis I have are ok with one another, they don't harm one another and I think they should be ok to move into the bigger tank with the clowns. Then new tank set up will include 2 large Gouramis, 1 big Plecostomus, 7 Clown Loaches, and 2 Discus. That shouldn't be too much right? I am going to wait for the Discus to make sure my tank is perfect water parameters. I am also going to cycle the tank right and let it run for two to three weeks before I put any fish in. I might put the 5 glow fish in to get it started, than remove them after into the small tank.
As for my 29 gallon tank, I don't plan on using it as a quarantine tank. I am going to change it over to a Salt water tank, only going to put two small fish in it. I don't really plan on adding a lot of fish to my 110 gallon, I believe less is more, so I might not need a quarantine tank. What I think would be the smartest thing for me to do, is use my 29 gallon set up to quarantine the fresh water fish to add to the fish I already have, than after I am doing making sure all the other fish are ok and in my 110 gallon. I will than convert it over to a salt water.
When I get closer to the time I plan on doing this, I will be back on here to get more information and help.
Anyway, It's been four days and the ICK is still on my two clowns. I was told by "The Reef" in Indianapolis that the white spots can last for days, but the ICK should be dead. He said keep treating for four more days, and do a 50% water change again (I have done one today). What scares me is one of my clowns I have not seen for 2 days, while the other has been out. They are both hiding a lot more than they use too and I don't want to remove the decorations to check on them, as I don't want to re-stress them. When is a good time to go ahead and look to make sure the one is not dead? I would hate to leave a dead fish in my tank and ruin the whole tank.
I have decided to spend a 150 more to get a 110 gallon set up. I figured what's the point of a 75 gallon when a 110 gallon is only 150 more. This comes with a Fluval canister filter for a 110 gallon tank, a heater, 110 pounds of gravel (going to get the kind that they can dig in), a bunch of start up chemicals, starter food, a stand, and lighting.
The basics, and the decorations I would have to get myself, which is fine.
My plan for this tank is as follows. I am going to buy about 150 ponds of rock for the tank, and make caves with the rock for the clown's to play in. Depending on how much 150 pounds of rock can go in a 110 gallon tank I plan on using a fish safe silicon to glue some rocks together to make some bigger caves for them. I wouldn't want the rock to fall and hurt my fish, or worse break the tank and kill all my fish. I also plan on using fake plants, I had used live plants in my tank with bad results. They make a BIG mess, and it's always a 50/50 debate over which is better for aquariums. I am thinking about that Japanese ball looking thing, throwing some of them in there as I would get the benefits of a live plant without the mess. I am also going to get a water jet for them to swim in, to make a current for them. Not a BIG one, but something they can play in and swim against. With your information I will wait until I get the new tank and than add the new clowns in, and I will buy about five more which if both of my clowns live will equal 7 in the 110 gallon tank. Also I am going to buy a 5 gallon small set up tank, and put the glow fish in there that I have. I am not going to move them to the bigger tank. The 2 Gouramis I have are ok with one another, they don't harm one another and I think they should be ok to move into the bigger tank with the clowns. Then new tank set up will include 2 large Gouramis, 1 big Plecostomus, 7 Clown Loaches, and 2 Discus. That shouldn't be too much right? I am going to wait for the Discus to make sure my tank is perfect water parameters. I am also going to cycle the tank right and let it run for two to three weeks before I put any fish in. I might put the 5 glow fish in to get it started, than remove them after into the small tank.
As for my 29 gallon tank, I don't plan on using it as a quarantine tank. I am going to change it over to a Salt water tank, only going to put two small fish in it. I don't really plan on adding a lot of fish to my 110 gallon, I believe less is more, so I might not need a quarantine tank. What I think would be the smartest thing for me to do, is use my 29 gallon set up to quarantine the fresh water fish to add to the fish I already have, than after I am doing making sure all the other fish are ok and in my 110 gallon. I will than convert it over to a salt water.
When I get closer to the time I plan on doing this, I will be back on here to get more information and help.
Anyway, It's been four days and the ICK is still on my two clowns. I was told by "The Reef" in Indianapolis that the white spots can last for days, but the ICK should be dead. He said keep treating for four more days, and do a 50% water change again (I have done one today). What scares me is one of my clowns I have not seen for 2 days, while the other has been out. They are both hiding a lot more than they use too and I don't want to remove the decorations to check on them, as I don't want to re-stress them. When is a good time to go ahead and look to make sure the one is not dead? I would hate to leave a dead fish in my tank and ruin the whole tank.
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DainBramage1991
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
- Location: Northern New England
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Ick can only be killed in the part of it's life-cycle when it's free-floating in the water. As long as there are still spots on the fish, you still have a live infection and should still be treating your tank - and for at least a week after the last spot is seen.
Have you removed the carbon from your filtration system? Carbon does just as good a job soaking up medications as it does soaking up unwanted chemicals and it should be removed for the duration of the treatment. Also, adding some aquarium salt (Diana gave you a good ratio to use) during the treatment will help your fish to avoid getting any secondary infections when the ick parasites drop off of their bodies and leave open sores behind.
Lastly, at 84 degrees your fish are going to have a harder time oxygenating. Make sure that you have plenty of aeration and that the surface of the water is seeing a lot of disturbance (that's where almost all of the gas exchange takes place). This can be achieved by adjusting spraybars, filter outputs, adding airstones, etc.
Good luck, I hope your fish all return to health soon, and have fun setting up the new tank.
Have you removed the carbon from your filtration system? Carbon does just as good a job soaking up medications as it does soaking up unwanted chemicals and it should be removed for the duration of the treatment. Also, adding some aquarium salt (Diana gave you a good ratio to use) during the treatment will help your fish to avoid getting any secondary infections when the ick parasites drop off of their bodies and leave open sores behind.
Lastly, at 84 degrees your fish are going to have a harder time oxygenating. Make sure that you have plenty of aeration and that the surface of the water is seeing a lot of disturbance (that's where almost all of the gas exchange takes place). This can be achieved by adjusting spraybars, filter outputs, adding airstones, etc.
Good luck, I hope your fish all return to health soon, and have fun setting up the new tank.
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
DainDramage
Yes, I did remove the filtration from my tank. I kept the bio-wheel in, but removed the filters. I have also always oxygenated my tank, with an air stone on the bottom, and the filter moves the water on top a lot.
I think one of my glow fish had died, being I don't see him anymore. I don't see any body parts, so I am assuming my Plecostomus finished the job. I am just worried about my clown fish, I have not seem them all day, and I have not seen one for 2 days. I know where they are hiding, but can't look inside to see if the are alive still. I was wondering if I should remove that or just wait a few days more, and see if they come out. I don't want to stress them more than they already are.
Thanks for the help everyone!!
Yes, I did remove the filtration from my tank. I kept the bio-wheel in, but removed the filters. I have also always oxygenated my tank, with an air stone on the bottom, and the filter moves the water on top a lot.
I think one of my glow fish had died, being I don't see him anymore. I don't see any body parts, so I am assuming my Plecostomus finished the job. I am just worried about my clown fish, I have not seem them all day, and I have not seen one for 2 days. I know where they are hiding, but can't look inside to see if the are alive still. I was wondering if I should remove that or just wait a few days more, and see if they come out. I don't want to stress them more than they already are.
Thanks for the help everyone!!
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
I have decided to spend a 150 more to get a 110 gallon set up. Good idea! The larger the better!
This comes with a Fluval canister filter for a 110 gallon tank, They over rate these filters. It is probably OK for a 50-60 gallon tank
a heater, 110 pounds of gravel (going to get the kind that they can dig in), a bunch of start up chemicals All you need is dechlor, Nitrospira starter bacteria is optional, no other chemicals., starter food, Usually cheap junk, high in grains and fish meal a stand, and lighting Not good for plants.
The basics I would skip the 'kit' and get each item separately, then ask for a discount. You will be buying the better stuff that you can actually use, not just run for a while then put into storage, and the decorations I would have to get myself, which is fine.
My plan for this tank is as follows. I am going to buy about 150 pounds of rock for the tank, and make caves with the rock for the clown's to play in. Depending on how much 150 pounds of rock can go in a 110 gallon tank I plan on using a fish safe silicon Silicone does not stick well to rocks. Get aquarium putty to glue some rocks together to make some bigger caves for them. I wouldn't want the rock to fall and hurt my fish, or worse break the tank and kill all my fish. I also plan on using fake plants, Plastic leaves can be sharp, and cut the fish. I had used live plants in my tank with bad results. They make a BIG mess, and it's always a 50/50 debate over which is better No, not a debate over which is better. Live plants are always better, but they need some care and the right equipment to grow well. for aquariums. I am thinking about that Japanese ball looking thing, throwing some of them in there as I would get the benefits of a live plant without the mess. I am also going to get a water jet The Koralia line of power heads are very good. Lots of water movement for low electricity use. My Clown Loaches would surf this over and over again. Good for additional water movement, too. I run one that is supposed to move over 1000 gallons per hour on my 125 gallon tank. for them to swim in, to make a current for them. Not a BIG one Get the big one; Clown Loaches (and many other Loaches) are high oxygen fish and the extra water movement is very important. , but something they can play in and swim against. With your information I will wait until I get the new tank and than add the new clowns in, and I will buy about five more which if both of my clowns live will equal 7 in the 110 gallon tank. Qaurantine the new fishAlso I am going to buy a 5 gallon small set up tank, and put the glow fish in thereZebra Danios are too active for that small a tank. They really like zipping back and forth. that I have. I am not going to move them to the bigger tank. The 2 Gouramis I have are ok with one another, they don't harm one another and I think they should be ok to move into the bigger tank with the clowns. Then new tank set up will include 2 large Gouramis, 1 big Plecostomus, 7 Clown Loaches, and 2 Discus. That shouldn't be too much right? Sounds like a nice assortment. Keep a sharp eye on the pleco. They have been caught in the act of sucking the slime coat off flat sided fish like Discus I am going to wait for the Discus to make sure my tank is perfect water parameters. I am also going to cycle the tank right Yea! Fishless Cycle (see next post) and let it run for two to three weeks before I put any fish in Yes, fishless cycle takes about 3 weeks.. I might put the 5 glow fish in to get it started No! Do not cycle with fish., than remove them after into the small tank.
As for my 29 gallon tank, I don't plan on using it as a quarantine tank. I am going to change it over to a Salt water tank, only going to put two small fish in it. I don't really plan on adding a lot of fish to my 110 gallon, I believe less is more, so I might not need a quarantine tank. What I think would be the smartest thing for me to do, is use my 29 gallon set up to quarantine the fresh water fish to add to the fish I already have, than after I am doing making sure all the other fish are ok and in my 110 gallon. I will than convert it over to a salt water. That is a good plan. A 29 is a bit large for a quarantine tank. Many people use a 10 gallon. Keep it available in case a fish gets sick and needs treatment
When I get closer to the time I plan on doing this, I will be back on here to get more information and help.
Anyway, It's been four days and the ICK is still on my two clowns. I was told by "The Reef" in Indianapolis that the white spots can last for days, but the ICK should be dead No, it is not dead. It is burrowed in under the slime coat.. He said keep treating for four more days Keep up the treatment until all the Ich has fallen off the fish, and a week longer., and do a 50% water change again (I have done one today). What scares me is one of my clowns I have not seen for 2 days, while the other has been out. They are both hiding a lot more than they use too and I don't want to remove the decorations to check on them, as I don't want to re-stress them. When is a good time to go ahead and look to make sure the one is not dead? I would hate to leave a dead fish in my tank and ruin the whole tank. That is hard to say. I would rather try to find a (possibly) dead fish and get it out and risk the stress to the remaining fish. If the one is dead there is a lot more stress from the Ich that leaves the dead fish early, but still able to breed, and more stress from the ammonia spike that happens when a dead fish is in the water.
baron1282
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:01 am
This comes with a Fluval canister filter for a 110 gallon tank, They over rate these filters. It is probably OK for a 50-60 gallon tank
a heater, 110 pounds of gravel (going to get the kind that they can dig in), a bunch of start up chemicals All you need is dechlor, Nitrospira starter bacteria is optional, no other chemicals., starter food, Usually cheap junk, high in grains and fish meal a stand, and lighting Not good for plants.The basics I would skip the 'kit' and get each item separately, then ask for a discount. You will be buying the better stuff that you can actually use, not just run for a while then put into storage, and the decorations I would have to get myself, which is fine.
My plan for this tank is as follows. I am going to buy about 150 pounds of rock for the tank, and make caves with the rock for the clown's to play in. Depending on how much 150 pounds of rock can go in a 110 gallon tank I plan on using a fish safe silicon Silicone does not stick well to rocks. Get aquarium putty to glue some rocks together to make some bigger caves for them. I wouldn't want the rock to fall and hurt my fish, or worse break the tank and kill all my fish. I also plan on using fake plants,
Plastic leaves can be sharp, and cut the fish. I had used live plants in my tank with bad results. They make a BIG mess, and it's always a 50/50 debate over which is better No, not a debate over which is better. Live plants are always better, but they need some care and the right equipment to grow well. for aquariums. I am thinking about that Japanese ball looking thing, throwing some of them in there as I would get the benefits of a live plant without the mess. I am also going to get a water jet The Koralia line of power heads are very good. Lots of water movement for low electricity use. My Clown Loaches would surf this over and over again. Good for additional water movement, too. I run one that is supposed to move over 1000 gallons per hour on my 125 gallon tank. for them to swim in, to make a current for them. Not a BIG one Get the big one; Clown Loaches (and many other Loaches) are high oxygen fish and the extra water movement is very important. , but something they can play in and swim against. With your information I will wait until I get the new tank and than add the new clowns in, and I will buy about five more which if both of my clowns live will equal 7 in the 110 gallon tank. Qaurantine the new fishAlso I am going to buy a 5 gallon small set up tank, and put the glow fish in thereZebra Danios are too active for that small a tank. They really like zipping back and forth. that I have. I am not going to move them to the bigger tank. The 2 Gouramis I have are ok with one another, they don't harm one another and I think they should be ok to move into the bigger tank with the clowns. Then new tank set up will include 2 large Gouramis, 1 big Plecostomus, 7 Clown Loaches, and 2 Discus. That shouldn't be too much right? Sounds like a nice assortment. Keep a sharp eye on the pleco. They have been caught in the act of sucking the slime coat off flat sided fish like Discus I am going to wait for the Discus to make sure my tank is perfect water parameters. I am also going to cycle the tank right Yea! Fishless Cycle (see next post) and let it run for two to three weeks before I put any fish in Yes, fishless cycle takes about 3 weeks.. I might put the 5 glow fish in to get it started No! Do not cycle with fish., than remove them after into the small tank.As for my 29 gallon tank, I don't plan on using it as a quarantine tank. I am going to change it over to a Salt water tank, only going to put two small fish in it. I don't really plan on adding a lot of fish to my 110 gallon, I believe less is more, so I might not need a quarantine tank. What I think would be the smartest thing for me to do, is use my 29 gallon set up to quarantine the fresh water fish to add to the fish I already have, than after I am doing making sure all the other fish are ok and in my 110 gallon. I will than convert it over to a salt water. That is a good plan. A 29 is a bit large for a quarantine tank. Many people use a 10 gallon. Keep it available in case a fish gets sick and needs treatment
When I get closer to the time I plan on doing this, I will be back on here to get more information and help.
Anyway, It's been four days and the ICK is still on my two clowns. I was told by "The Reef" in Indianapolis that the white spots can last for days, but the ICK should be dead No, it is not dead. It is burrowed in under the slime coat.. He said keep treating for four more days Keep up the treatment until all the Ich has fallen off the fish, and a week longer., and do a 50% water change again (I have done one today). What scares me is one of my clowns I have not seen for 2 days, while the other has been out. They are both hiding a lot more than they use too and I don't want to remove the decorations to check on them, as I don't want to re-stress them. When is a good time to go ahead and look to make sure the one is not dead? I would hate to leave a dead fish in my tank and ruin the whole tank. That is hard to say. I would rather try to find a (possibly) dead fish and get it out and risk the stress to the remaining fish. If the one is dead there is a lot more stress from the Ich that leaves the dead fish early, but still able to breed, and more stress from the ammonia spike that happens when a dead fish is in the water.
baron1282
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:01 am
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.
Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.
The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle.
Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank.
The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way.
Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit.
How to cycle a tank the fishless way:
1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins.
2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria.
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospira spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. (This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them). Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems.
3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading.
4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle.
5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled.
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm.
6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates.
7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day.
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.
When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank.
9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change.
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done.
10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.
Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.
The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle.
Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank.
The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way.
Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit.
How to cycle a tank the fishless way:
1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins.
2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria.
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospira spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. (This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them). Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems.
3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading.
4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle.
5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled.
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm.
6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates.
7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day.
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.
When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank. 9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change.
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done.
10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Thanks for all the advice everyone.
I am sorry to report that one of my Clown's had went to the great fish tank in the sky. It saddens me, because I felt like I had done something good by given them a better hiding space. I understand now, that my next tank should be set up perfectly for them before I put them in. I checked on the other one, and it's in a tight place. I can't understand how it got there, but it's still wiggling it's tail, so I didn't force him to come out. I hope that this guy at least heals and we can move forward.
If the other fish heals, should I get him another tank mate?
I don't know if I want to go bigger now, I don't want to kill anymore fish. What was weird to me, I thought it was playing dead at first. He was not in the hiding spot, he was out on top of the rocks in the tank. I made sure he was not playing dead. I poked him, netted him easily. I left him in the net for 20 min, no movement. I watched a lot of YouTube videos, and the ones playing dead at least were breathing. So I knew he was gone. So I will check on the other one in two more days, to see if it is alive still. If it does not come out of hiding.
I had this tank going with no problems and this happens.
I am sorry to report that one of my Clown's had went to the great fish tank in the sky.
It saddens me, because I felt like I had done something good by given them a better hiding space. I understand now, that my next tank should be set up perfectly for them before I put them in. I checked on the other one, and it's in a tight place. I can't understand how it got there, but it's still wiggling it's tail, so I didn't force him to come out. I hope that this guy at least heals and we can move forward.If the other fish heals, should I get him another tank mate?
I don't know if I want to go bigger now, I don't want to kill anymore fish. What was weird to me, I thought it was playing dead at first. He was not in the hiding spot, he was out on top of the rocks in the tank. I made sure he was not playing dead. I poked him, netted him easily. I left him in the net for 20 min, no movement. I watched a lot of YouTube videos, and the ones playing dead at least were breathing. So I knew he was gone.
So I will check on the other one in two more days, to see if it is alive still. If it does not come out of hiding. I had this tank going with no problems and this happens.
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Now I have to report both are dead. The other came out, looked like he was trying to eat and swim, but it's a no go. I don't know what to do now, I feel so bad because I feel it's my fault that they both died. I should have just left the tank be, and not change anything.
At least my other fish look healthy.
Just so everyone knows, I had to use the Vodka and Clove oil method on my last clown. He was not swimming right, like I said he was trying to swim and eat, but he sank to the bottom of the tank, not moving at all. Just breathing. He was a very sick fish, and he looked in pain. I netted him for an hour, just held him in the net at the top of the tank to see if he could recover. I than tried to set him free, he just sank, nothing. No movements, nothing. all he was doing was breathing. I went ahead and netted him again, left him in the net. Went to the herb store and got the clove oil, and than to CVS for the vodka. I am glad I had some vodka left over, because I felt like crap doing this. He did pass away in peaceful sleep I am happy to say.
My plans had changed now, since I no longer have any clown fish, I might just get the 75 gallon tank, and try some other fish. I don't know if I could go though watching more Loaches die on me. I don't even think I will get the Discus as they are very hard fish to keep I hear.
At least my other fish look healthy.
Just so everyone knows, I had to use the Vodka and Clove oil method on my last clown. He was not swimming right, like I said he was trying to swim and eat, but he sank to the bottom of the tank, not moving at all. Just breathing. He was a very sick fish, and he looked in pain. I netted him for an hour, just held him in the net at the top of the tank to see if he could recover. I than tried to set him free, he just sank, nothing. No movements, nothing. all he was doing was breathing. I went ahead and netted him again, left him in the net. Went to the herb store and got the clove oil, and than to CVS for the vodka. I am glad I had some vodka left over, because I felt like crap doing this. He did pass away in peaceful sleep I am happy to say.
My plans had changed now, since I no longer have any clown fish, I might just get the 75 gallon tank, and try some other fish. I don't know if I could go though watching more Loaches die on me. I don't even think I will get the Discus as they are very hard fish to keep I hear.
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DainBramage1991
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
- Location: Northern New England
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Sorry to hear your sad news, I'm sure your clowns will be missed.
Don't get discouraged. We all deal with losing fish from time to time, it's a sad but normal part of the hobby. Learning how to minimize that aspect is part of what makes us better fishkeepers. Don't let a setback take away your potential enjoyment of this fun and fascinating hobby.
If you truly enjoy loaches, I would encourage you to get the larger tank (if your budget allows for it, of course) and consider getting clowns again in the future. If not clowns, many of the smaller botiine species are also quite fun and interesting, and could be quite at home in a 75 gallon tank if that's the choice you make. My personal favorites are Golden Zebras (botia histrionica), of which I have 6 in my tank along with yoyos and kubotais.
Good luck.
Don't get discouraged. We all deal with losing fish from time to time, it's a sad but normal part of the hobby. Learning how to minimize that aspect is part of what makes us better fishkeepers. Don't let a setback take away your potential enjoyment of this fun and fascinating hobby.
If you truly enjoy loaches, I would encourage you to get the larger tank (if your budget allows for it, of course) and consider getting clowns again in the future. If not clowns, many of the smaller botiine species are also quite fun and interesting, and could be quite at home in a 75 gallon tank if that's the choice you make. My personal favorites are Golden Zebras (botia histrionica), of which I have 6 in my tank along with yoyos and kubotais.
Good luck.
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Thanks, but I am thinking of taking on a harder challenge. Discus. :-p I know I killed two Clowns, but I didn't do my home work when I set up this tank. I am on the SimplyDiscus forums right now getting Idea's. Plus I am contacting a local dealer in the fish, before I do the set up. I am about 3 months away from affording a new tank, so I am doing all my homework before I jump into this. If anything I will just get some simple fish and enjoy in my new tank. :-p
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DainBramage1991
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
- Location: Northern New England
Re: Hello!! ICK!!
Good luck with the discus then, I hope you are very successful with them! They are challenging enough that I have never tried to take them on (partially because I lack the space/budget to do single species setups), but I have respect for anyone who does.
No matter what kind of fish you end up keeping, I wish you success and happiness.
No matter what kind of fish you end up keeping, I wish you success and happiness.
Re: Hello!! ICK!! (Update)
Hey everyone.
It's been a while since the Loaches got Ich. I might one day do a freshwater tank again and get some Clown Loaches.
So what did I do instead? I went Saltwater. LOL My 29 was pretty muched Nuked after my clowns died. I took back the fish that were healthy so they wouldn't die in my tank. I than waited a few months and got my 29 set back up for Saltwater. I had it for about 3 months and I decided to upgrade to a 55 gallon.
I am now having a successful saltwater tank, and with all I learned from my freshwater friends, I have not had a single death (YET). So my clown loaches did not die in vain, as I learned a lot!! I will more in likely do Clown Loaches again, just not too soon. I am going to do a large Reef Tank first before I do a clown loach tank! :-p
Here is my tank! Thanks to all who replayed a long time ago helping me with this issue!
http://cdn.aquariumadvice.com/forums/at ... 1370445680
It's been a while since the Loaches got Ich. I might one day do a freshwater tank again and get some Clown Loaches.
So what did I do instead? I went Saltwater. LOL My 29 was pretty muched Nuked after my clowns died. I took back the fish that were healthy so they wouldn't die in my tank. I than waited a few months and got my 29 set back up for Saltwater. I had it for about 3 months and I decided to upgrade to a 55 gallon.
I am now having a successful saltwater tank, and with all I learned from my freshwater friends, I have not had a single death (YET). So my clown loaches did not die in vain, as I learned a lot!! I will more in likely do Clown Loaches again, just not too soon. I am going to do a large Reef Tank first before I do a clown loach tank! :-p
Here is my tank! Thanks to all who replayed a long time ago helping me with this issue!
http://cdn.aquariumadvice.com/forums/at ... 1370445680
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