Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

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SPENCERSmommy09
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by SPENCERSmommy09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:27 pm

I bought my son a 29 gallon fish tank almost two and a half (or so) months ago. To give a short back story: Bought live plants- got snails! I was told clown loaches eat them... and Krusty (the clown loach) loves his snails! Anywho when I bought him at Petco the guy told me that I could only have one if I wanted to (I learned later that I should keep him in a group) anyways before I can add more (which I want to) I have to get rid of his ich. I had ich before when I first bought fish, I treated it with KORDON Ich Attack, its is 100% organic and says on the site that it is ok for loachs and catfishies (we got it when we frist bought the tank, before loach, and I had a Albino Cory Cat) anywho it worked the first time so I am using it again. The only fish that have ich this time around are the clown loach and Bala sharks (the newest fish I added). I think the ich came back because I kinda shuffled the gravel alot trying to fix an air hose.
Anyways I have a few questions...

If anyone has used this product- it says "does not require water changes before each treatment". Can I still change out maybe 20% of the water every other day? I do not want the amonia and crap to get out of hand. Also do I have to take the water from the bottom of the tank everytime? Usually it takes two people to clean the tank because I just use and old 1 GL pitcher to hold the dirty water (when I use a vac hose). It is hard to vac the water out by myself because you have to pinch the water off to go dump out the pitcher. So if I am home alone with a 3 year old... thats kind of hard :) can I take water from the top when my husband is at work? (He works nights 4x week 10 hours so its hard to find the time durring the days he works to spend dumping nasty fish water out). (Once a week we do a 20- 25% water change by vac on weekends)

Also I bought Api Stress Coat+ (I normally use quick start as a water conditioner when I change out water), it says it heals fish after injury or disease and helps with stress during those times. How exactly do I use this? I mean I know when using it as a conditioner I just add X amount determined by the number of gal I replace... but when adding it to help with stress and healing- how do I use it? It says to double dose but is that taking say 5gal out and putting 5gal back in with a 2x dose or add enough dose for the WHOLE tank?

Sorry if it seems like alot of questions. I just want to make sure our babies are comfortable and get the right treatment. Thank you!

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Guyin
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by Guyin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:25 pm

I went through similar issues with my 75 gal tank(s). Quick Cure by API may be better for the initial treatment, restricted use in some states, wear gloves! If the ich is bad, I do recommend a UV filter as it could save fish. This type of filter is a last resort and better than replacing fish, only use for the cure and then as maintenance every couple weeks. It kills all parasites and bacteria, good and bad. Do yourself a favor and replace your initial conditioner with Prime. If you buy the UV filter, use SeaChem Stability to replenish the good bacteria so your filter can do its job.

It is safe to use 2x the treatment/conditioning, and up to 5x in case of emergency like out of control ammo or nitrites. Anyway you can remove water for exchanges is better than not doing the exchange, so a pitcher at at time will suffice. Whenever the gravel is disturbed you release nitrites into the water and stress the fish, ich attacks quickly when fish are in stress. When adding new water make sure it's treated and temperature balanced.

George
Guyin
2-75 Gallon Freshwater Tanks
Loach, Gourami, Angel, Rainbow
20 Gallon for our Puffer

SPENCERSmommy09
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by SPENCERSmommy09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:22 pm

Thanks. I am going to 2x the ich treatment because I noticed a little while ago that he has it along one whole side :(
The bottle says I can do 2x if the infection is bad. The last time my long finned skirted tettra got it REALLY bad, I mean he was covered in it and so slugish, I thought for sure he would die... but luckly he made it. The loach seems to be really strong. He is swimming and playing like normal he does however rub up against the air tube on the side of the tank.

How can I keep nitrates down? I recently had a disaster when I tried fixing the air hose (on the bottom it is held down by these little sucktion things and it came loose and I think my pleco was the one who dislodged it... he digs) anywho I got convenced at the pet store a while back that I should put frozen brine shrimp in the tank every other day... well it was a nightmare after I moved the gravel, there was so much floating around it was aweful.

Thanks so much for your help. I really do hope he makes it. When I addressed this issue with the guy at petco who was helping me he was like "Oh well we will give you your money back if it dies" but thats not really the point you know?

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Guyin
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by Guyin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:07 pm

My nightmare began with comments from employees at the big chain pet stores, flippant and unknowing. Ich will spread quickly as I believe your nitrites are over stressing the fish. Prime will bring the nitrites down along with 15% water exchanges every other day. I recommend a UV filter as an emergency backup plan, it will remove the parasite. Just remember to add SeaChem stability after you turn off the UV and at each water exchange. It took me a while to realize that all additives on the market are Not equal!

Most of the API products are all sold separately and I don't know if any address nitrites. Prime is an all-in-one conditioner. The SeaChem line is more expensive but works! Feeding frozen shrimp or worms or whatever requires restraint in feeding, I was told by a breeder that feeding once every 2 days is better. I use freeze dried brine shrimp (no parasites), "Omega One" flakes and every other day they get the content of several squeezed cooked peas (no skins) - they go wild for that!! I have every little debris in my gravel but when I vacuum it my nitrites spike, I believe that's common tho.

I have 52 fish in my 75 gal tank and I'm finally getting the water chemistry balanced. Most HO (hang-on) power filters state that 3-4 tank exchanges per hour is all you need - I've found that 8 to 10 cycles solve most of my issues. HO filters are comparatively inexpensive considering the value. Under-gravel filters continue to introduce ammonia and nitrites into your tank, you're fighting a losing battle. All the food debris is also being drawn into the gravel bed where is rots, I do suggest a herd of bottom feeders to solve that issue.

George
Guyin
2-75 Gallon Freshwater Tanks
Loach, Gourami, Angel, Rainbow
20 Gallon for our Puffer

SPENCERSmommy09
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Post by SPENCERSmommy09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:31 pm

You lost me in fish jargen lol. I will look into the UV thing. For what chemicals I have tried Api is my fav. I will however try the Prime one because you are not the first to rave about it! lol... I honestly do not know what chemicals I should buy and what I shouldn't. At the pet store they try to sell you anything and everything. And they have so many! There are ones to bring your ph up then down, one for amonia one for this and that. Makes my little head spin lol. I did buy some water test strips and they were a pain! So I found a little kit on Amazon that had little tubes and chemicals to add to the sample to see whats what. That should come in by the end of the week.

So at the moment I own
Kordon Ich Attack (1.5 bottles- big bottles)
API stress coat plus (big bottle... cheaper that way)
Tettra water conditioner (bought at target... HATE it so its my "incase I run out" crap lol)
and a TINY bit of my Api Quick start conditioner (which I love)...

Do I need anything else? Besides the ones you mentioned btw. And do I need to add aquarium salt? I don't now and I am scared if I do all my fish will croke! It would be just my luck.

Thank you for all your help btw!

User avatar
Guyin
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by Guyin » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:00 am

As for what chemicals to buy, I have a huge collection of API stuff. After using API stuff and listening to the pros, I am not sure of the quality! I've heard alot of really bad things about the tetra line, I can't recommend any of their products. As for ich, I would highly recommend API Quick Cure - many dealers use this product for disease control. Prime wins hands down for all basic uses, that vast majority of advanced aquarium enthusiasts all recommend it. I found the Stability product from doing research on what is the best to balance an aquarium when new and at all water changes. I've narrowed the list of chemicals to the 3 I mentioned. Test strips are better than not testing but a chemical test is really going to give the most accurate results. As far as adjusting the ph or nitrates up and down - those chemicals cannot replace frequent water changes and the basic chemicals. The UV could be your most valuable tool against the war of algae blooms and disease. I add salt to my aquarium as a precaution and lowering my odds against disease, there are downsides to salt in a tank - all point to unbalanced water. So I use 1/2 the recommended doses, aquarium salt will not hurt the fish as long as you follow the directions.

Tips on UV filters: they're expensive, bulbs don't last long etc, the value is that it can save lives.

George
Guyin
2-75 Gallon Freshwater Tanks
Loach, Gourami, Angel, Rainbow
20 Gallon for our Puffer

SPENCERSmommy09
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by SPENCERSmommy09 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:50 pm

The Api is the only brand I have tried and liked. I am going to try Prime though. I bought the tetra at target (the only one they have and I was already there so I was like "hey we can try it") I do not like it because my fish act "less playful" when I use it... like it doesn't work.

I found some basic UV filters on Amazon for $30. Which is a lot cheaper than Petco or the actual fish stores here. I only have a 29 gal so I do not think I need some high powered $300 one lol. I figure the $30 one will be fine, especially if I only have to use it like once a week. You said it gets rid of algee. I do have a pleco... will he still have enough to eat or will I need to give him a "cookie" (waffer)?

Krusty's (the loach) ich hasn't gotten any worse or better. But I have been keeping the light off overhead and he comes out more when the light is off. He is still being super playful (his best bud is my albino cory cat... they swim together and "play") so at least the ich doesn't seem to be making him feel bad. It is completely gone from my bala sharks. I think if tomorrow it doesn't look any better I might try that Api one you suggested. I also am going to vaccume out the gravel tomorrow real good. So cross your fingers.

SPENCERSmommy09
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Newbie with Ich and clown loach... please help

Post by SPENCERSmommy09 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:56 pm

OOOO I do have some ATM stuff. (Ok the reason we got the tank is because my son is in LOVE with the show Tanked, and he asked for fish and we made a deal... you start peeing in the toilet I will get you a tank)(he is 3 so it was a good way to get him to try) so when my husband saw their products he did pick some up... they are ok. I just have the conditioner and the "good bacteria" one that is basicly like API quick start.

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