HELP! Skinny loach AND ich!

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msbrown246
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:51 pm

HELP! Skinny loach AND ich!

Post by msbrown246 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:34 pm

i have a 90 gallon tank which originally had 6 clowns (and other fish) for about a year. about 3 weeks ago i purchased 3 new clowns from the pet store (there were 7 total at the store - these had been in the store about 2 weeks). The skinny guy was skinny at the pet store, so i didn't buy him originally (although he was my favorite due to the spot on his side). I figured if he was still alive in a week i would purchase the remaining 4 clowns and give the skinny guy a chance. They acclimated well, and they all eat well, including the skinny guy. I try to hand feed him and make sure he gets a little more than the others. All has been well, except the skinny one seems to get thinner. He seems active, but is so thin. Based on what I've read, he may have some sort of parasitic infection going on. What can I do to treat him? Also, THIS MORNING i noticed ich on my clowns INCLUDING some of the original ones from over a year ago. None of the loaches are behaving strangely at this point. The only thing that has happened with the tank is that on Friday (3 days ago) the professional tank cleaning service did their monthly cleaning....water change, cleaning of gravel and decor, changed both filters. I am not sure if this cleaning could account for the appearance of ich all of a sudden (stress to the loaches???). Any tried and true tips to help with the ich would also be appreciated. I have read the info in the forum here, but it is from a few years ago..I would like the most up to date information, if possible. There is just so much info out there on the internet, i am not sure WHAT the best method is. I had a minor ich outbreak months ago and treated it with increase in water temperature and Ridich. Anyone have any recommendations? I would be heartbroken if i lost any of my fish, especially the clowns!

I am not sure how to post images on here....i do have some photos of the skinny loach, in case it aids in diagnosis. Hard to see the ich spots, but i'd say the skinny guy has the most.

here is a link to a Facebook Page regarding clown loaches....the images are on that site...
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 437&type=1

thanks!
michele brown

mehtab_gill
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: HELP! Skinny loach AND ich!

Post by mehtab_gill » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:33 am

i've heard that since clown loaches come from the wild and are not captive bread they can come with ich more likely than other fish.
I have ich with 2 clowns in my tank as well and the medication i'm using right now is ick guard by jungle, 3 day treatment so far but the ich is getting worse. called the LFS where i bought the clowns and he recommended salt treatment, even though most loaches can't handle salt, their wild habitat may contain small traces of salt which might make them more resilient to this treatment. I've also heard that the medication causes more stress than the salt, especially the toxic green malachite which may even make the cysts more irritable. so i will be switching to salt method even tho other board members may find that completely wrong. best of luck to you getting rid of your ick, hopefully another board member will be able to help us both on our current problem.

edit: here is a link http://www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/art ... 0loach.htm
more detailed information than others out there.

edit: EXCERPT:

Loss of weight or "skinny disease" is also quite common in Clown loaches. Typical symptoms are loss of weight and behaviour known as "knifeback" even though the fish is acting and eating normally. This sickness is more difficult to treat, it comes from a parasite organism (spironucleus) in the intestines of the same type that is thought to cause the so called "discus disease". I have successfully removed this disease from newly imported fish by using Spirohexol from JBL in the form of tablets. I have taken one tablet and crushed it and dissolve it in as little water as possible. I have then used discus granules which have been soaked in the solution. It becomes like a thick porridge after a short time when the food has drawn in the liquid. I then feed this to the sick fishes, after a week it looks like the sickness is gone. For the best possible effect do not feed with any other food. Flagyl (Metronidazole) also helps fight against this sickness but at least here in Sweden it is on prescription and can be a little difficult to come by.



Apart from this Clown loaches are not more susceptible than other fish, the above sickness usually occurs in fish that have been stressed during transport or subjected to other stress factors like cold water or poor aquarium hygiene. Do not buy fish that look emaciated! Well looked after fish are seldom sick. To quote my friend Elisabeth Hallberg; "the best way to avoid sickness is to keep the fish healthy".

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: HELP! Skinny loach AND ich!

Post by Diana » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:15 am

Mothly tank service is not enough water changes. In between each water change the aquarium chemistry goes on altering the water. If the water changes are infrequent, then the water parameters get too far out of norm. When the water change happens it creates too great a change in mineral levels for the fish.
"Changing the filter". Do you mean they brought you new filters? This is a disaster!
Do you mean they changed the media in both filters? This can also be quite bad.
Beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces in the tank, in the filter, and especially the filter media. This is where the best water flow is, and the best habitat for them. When you throw away filter media (just because it is dirty) you are throwing away the nitrifying bacteria that keep the ammonia and nitrite under control.

Between the 2 things the 'service' is doing for you I can easily see that the fish are stressed enough that they could be more susceptible to Ich.

Weekly water changes are much better. A small adjustment each week is just fine with the fish. They can alter their metabolism that small amount very quickly. Clean and reuse the filter media. If it falls apart, then throw away only one at a time. Allow the new one to grow a good bacteria population before tossing the other one.
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Ich is a parasite that lives on the outside of the fish, just under the slime coat. While it is on the fish it cannot be killed.
When it falls off the fish to breed it might be killed, but maybe not. It lands on the surfaces, especially the substrate, and reproduces. It is the free-swimming babies that can be killed by pretty much all the medicines out there, including the heat and salt method, or ultra violet.

Rid Ich is one medicine that has been around a while, and can be used for Loaches. Many people here have used it.

Heat and Salt method works with Loaches that come from warm water, but I would not raise the heat so much on cool water Loaches like Dojos or any of the Hillstream species. I would combine the heat and salt method with an ultra violet sterilizer. Do not add an ultra violet sterilizer to any other medicine, though. Many meds are broken down by light.

Skinny Loach can be a combined problem of internal parasites and bacterial infection. Here is the order I would treat:

Heat/Salt/UV until all signs of Ich are gone, and 3 days beyond the day you saw the last spot.

Antibiotics. Ich may have left the fish weakened and bacteria are the next most potent organisms to attack the fish. OFten Antibiotics are a 5 day treatment.

Medicine for internal parasites. Levamisole, Prazi-Pro and others are good. Do your research. There are several groups of internal parasites, and different meds treat different groups. If you know what parasite you are treating, select the most potent product for that parasite. Set the timing of the doses to suit that parasite. Often the treatment is 3 days of medicine followed by a break of about a week, then repeat the medicine.

Repeat the antibiotics. (5 days)

Repeat the anti-parasite medicine. (3 days)

Between each medicine give the fish 2 water changes of 50% 12 hours apart, and run activated carbon in the filter for 24 hours.

Here is the reasoning:
Ich kills fastest, and can live through intermittent treatment. Treat until it is gone.
Bacterial infections are next most serious, but you do not know what the fish might be infected with. A broad spectrum antibiotic is a good way to kill most bacteria that attack fish. Many fish diseases are caused by Gram negative bacteria, but some Gram positive bacteria are good at moving in on compromised fish (such as fish that are just recovering from Ich)
Internal parasites are very slow to kill the fish. Many have a life cycle where they are vulnerable to medicines for a while, then enter a resting, egg or spore stage that cannot be killed by meds. Then the eggs (or whatever) hatch, and the parasite is again vulnerable to meds. Sometimes the timing is about a week long.
Alternating the antibiotics and antiparasite medicines can allow you to switch medicines if you get any indication of the identity of the parasite or bacteria. Also, for whatever reason, repeating the medicines seems to really help clear up the various problems.
Doing 2 water changes of 50% 12 hours apart is a good way to clear the medicines from the tank,and allows a thorough cleaning of the floor of the tank. You can also do smaller water changes while the treatment is going on, just be sure to add back however much medicine was lost because of the water change.
Activated carbon removes most medicines from the water so use it between treatments to give the fish a break from medications, then remove it during treatments.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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