Loaches with gill redness :<

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PikaLing
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:18 pm

Loaches with gill redness :<

Post by PikaLing » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:24 pm

Hello!

I JUST noticed my Angelicus Loach (Botia Kubotai) has a slight bit of redness on one side right where his gills are.
* How long has the tank been set up for?

Was completely cycled in the first few weeks of December 2013

* Size of tank (dimensions and volume).
23.5g 24x18x12 inches

* How is the tank being filtered?
I currently have one Marineland Bio-wheel 220 rated for a 55g aquarium(Had it in a box for a LONG time, hadn't been used at all, works awesome)

* Water temperature.
80 degrees F

** In addition, just tested my water parameters (except nitrates, I'm out of that kit, oops :< Just finished a ~70% water change on Wednesday though)
PH - 7.2
Ammona - 0 (I have a seachem ammonia alert, it isn't picking anything up. And it does work well when there is ammonia :>)
nitrites - 0

* Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?)

I had previously been doing 2x 25% water changes twice a week. I just received a water changer and finished a ~70% water change on Wednesday. Will be doing one sizable water change weekly from now on. I clean my filter every few weeks. I keep the Biowheel FAR away from the normal tapwater. I pretty much just rise off some of the gunk, plant leaves, etc.

* Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc).

The most recent additions were my 3 Angelicus loaches, have had them for about a month. A few weeks prior to adding them, I lost a few Kuhlis that I got from the same LFS. I want to say they had gill redness, not 100% sure. (I lost 2/3 of the kuhlis I bought from this LFS, same place I got the Angelicus :<. One had died the day after I got him, he wasn't in good shape when I brought him home from the store. The other seemed to be lost from a mechanical injury :I) A wonderful idea buying fish *again* from the LFS that gave me sick/dying fish -_-.

In addition, I added a little tiny bit of duckweed about a week ago. Its not doing well <.< Weirdly.

* What other fish are in the tank?

Currently I have 1 Botia Striata (He was all by himself in his tank with a bunch of freshwater flounder and a crapton of tetras)
3 Angelicus loaches
1 Black Kuhli (Again, all by himself in a tank :<)
5 Striped Kuhlis
2 Otocinclus

And, yes, yes <.< I am slightly overstocked according to Aqadvisor.com 111%. Their bigger 55g has been cycling for over a month and will be ready for them in the not-so-distant future. None of the fish, excluding the black kuhli seems to be anywhere near fully grown.



Some things I had noticed, hopefully helpful:

I had noticed My Striata as well as a few of the Angelicus *EVERY NOW AND THEN* do a short, quick, dart over and over around the tank. (It looked similar to an Ich scratch, but have not seen any ich whatsoever at any point!) Additionally, if I add a tiny dose of.. Pima/Melafix I don't see that weird darting for a good while.


Do you guys have any idea what is going on? :I In addition if you can recommend any medication that would help, that would be super amazing. I don't actually know if Melafix will fix it :<

Sorry for no pictures. They're still pretty active and hard to get a good picture of. The affected loach does do a small amount of bottom sitting.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Loaches with gill redness :<

Post by Diana » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:04 pm

Melafix and Pimafix are good if you are treating for the very beginning of bacterial or fungal issues. If you catch the beginning of the problem then these will weaken the organisms causing the problem and the fishes' natural immunity will fight it off.
I have used them successfully against things like fin rot, which starts as an external problem, and can be caught almost from the first day, if you are watching for it.
M and P work (like many other meds) by latching onto organic matter in the tank. If there is a lot of debris in the substrate and filter then the medicines may attach to that and not the disease organisms.

So continue the water changes, and each time emphasize vacuuming the floor of the tank OR filter cleaning. Alternating so that in any one cleaning not too many beneficial organisms are disturbed. You might vacuum 1/3 of the tank each time, then on the 4th cleaning just siphon out some water without disturbing the substrate and use this water to clean the filter.

M and P do nothing against internal or external parasites.
I am not sure if the darting you are seeing is a sign of irritation, or just playful fish. Irritation could be from water chemistry or parasites.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

PikaLing
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Loaches with gill redness :<

Post by PikaLing » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:22 pm

Kind of forgot about this post for a few weeks o_o

Thanks Diana :> I have been keeping up with my water changes and stuff - will be implementing the filter/vacuum rotation too! That's a great idea :D


Some updates since the first post in february~

I couldn't really find a definitive 100% answer on the redness (it really seems like it can be a kind of a lot of things) so I decided to buy a pack of General Cure to try out.

I completed the dose and they seemed much more active pretty much instantly. (Yay :D). In addition, the angelicus with the redness doesn't seem to have it anymore (/YES! :>). They've also been relocated to their 55g since then, and doing well.

*cough* I did notice that both of my otos have some pretty red gills, my kuhlis do as well *sigh*. So I re-started the treatment and completed it today, actually! (It's been some weeks since they've been moved and finished their last treatment, btw). The redness did seem to go down.

My issue now is this: ..am I done? Have I killed these flukes? :< Should I just be ready to jump on it again if i see any more redness?

Edit: Naturally, not long after I click post, my kuhlis start scratching <.<

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Loaches with gill redness :<

Post by Diana » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:31 pm

Since you are not really sure what the original problem was, then I will say it could come back.

a) Water quality issue: You can monitor and do water changes for everything there is a test for, but if there is something else in the water that is an irritant, but there is not test for, then that might be it. Still, but big stuff is covered. Ammonia and pH are the most common water problems that could cause itching, and possibly red gills.

b) Parasites can reproduce. Most are not like Ich. It is possible to have parasites in a form that you cannot see (like eggs or a dormant phase) so you think the problem is cured, then it comes back because the eggs hatch. Ich can hide in the gills, but otherwise it will be seen (well, unless the fish hides or something).

c) Diseases mostly do not come back, once they are treated. The problem is figuring out which disease it might be and following the proper treatment.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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