Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

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MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm

The reason why I wonder about this is that Loaches Online's very profile for the weather loach, as well as Emma Turner's article on them for Practical Fishkeeping, gives their recommended temperature range as up to 25 degrees.
In the wild, Weather loaches live within a surprisingly large temperature range, dependent on location. In the aquarium they should be kept at a steady sub-tropical temperature within 15-25°C/59-77°F. They have been known to tolerate lower and higher extremes, but are most comfortable within this range.
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ ... keep-them/
10 - 25ºC
https://www.loaches.com/species-index/w ... licaudatus

While this obviously isn't as warm as needed for, say, discus, it nonetheless overlaps with many other tropicals (eg: with a great many of tropical loaches). So unless I'm missing something, I see no reason why weather loaches shouldn't be kept in tropical tanks that fit the above temperature ranges.
473 liter - black kuhli/clown loaches, pictus catfish, fighting fish
110 liter - neon/green neon tetras, planned dwarf loaches
473 liter (planned) - Burmese/weather/yoyo/zebra/striped kuhli loaches, red tail/roseline sharks, tiger barbs or silver dollars

Bas Pels
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:41 am

To me, the problem lies in the first quote: In the aquarium they should be kept at a steady sub-tropical temperature

There are no sub-tropical areas on the world where the temperature is steady year-round.

There are, however, areas in the tropics where the temperature is, year round, a bit lowered because they are very high. For instance. Nairobi, Kenya, has a steady 24 C - being 1000 meters high. That also explains the relative cool Lake Malawi - being helped by its deepness.

Wheather loaches don't live, however, that high. Therefore, they just need a summer and a winter.

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:33 am

Thank you Bas Pels for some input. I can see why you said weather loaches need summer and winter (since those are the only 2 seasons in subtropical regions, but they are seasons nonetheless and so merit consideration of a seasonal range for subtropical aquarium fish), and I would agree with it, were it not for this part of the first quote:
In the wild, Weather loaches live within a surprisingly large temperature range, dependent on location.
This would suggest that that temperature range is not because of seasonal changes, but because of geographical range. And that would also be consistent with the wide range the Loaches Online profile gives the weather loach.
China, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South and probably North Korea, Japan.
Some of these countries (Burma, Thailand, and Vietnam, for example) are obviously quite warm year-round. Along with the above, that would be consistent with weather loaches living in waters around 25 degrees or something close to that at the southern end of their range (therefore making them candidates for tropical tanks with temperatures fitting that range).
473 liter - black kuhli/clown loaches, pictus catfish, fighting fish
110 liter - neon/green neon tetras, planned dwarf loaches
473 liter (planned) - Burmese/weather/yoyo/zebra/striped kuhli loaches, red tail/roseline sharks, tiger barbs or silver dollars

Bas Pels
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:06 am

Not all of Burma is year round warm, I have for instance Petruichthys brevis, Danio kyathit and Celestichthys choprae from this country, and they all come from far inland, and higher in the mountains. The same goes for Micronemacheilus cruciatus and Tanichthys micagemmae from Vietnam.

Seriously fish recommends for all these species lower temperatures, I keep them unheated and currently my house is 18.5 C. In summer it is warmer, obviously.

Still, you mentioned a good point with `Along with the above, that would be consistent with weather loaches living in waters around 25 degrees or something close to that at the southern end of their range (therefore making them candidates for tropical tanks with temperatures fitting that range). `

The problem is, almost always, that we don´t know where a fish is coming from. Quite often that is a problem.

Now I wonder whether wheather loaches live in the warm parts of Vietnam, Burma, or not. In case you have them from there, most likely they should be kept warm. But how could you know?

Most of them come from temperate regions, and the chances are therefore higher that your fish come from these more temperate regions. But on the other hand, if an exporeter knows he has them in a creak nearby, why bother keeping them indoors?

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:04 pm

You're probably right on the danios, mountain minnows, mountain loaches, etc, needing the cooler water since they're from the mountains. I'm really not well versed in their needs just yet :lol:

Ultimately, I think your suggestion to find out the source of the weather loaches to get an idea of temperature is the best one. My local aquarium store should be able to give me their supplier and place of origin.
473 liter - black kuhli/clown loaches, pictus catfish, fighting fish
110 liter - neon/green neon tetras, planned dwarf loaches
473 liter (planned) - Burmese/weather/yoyo/zebra/striped kuhli loaches, red tail/roseline sharks, tiger barbs or silver dollars

Bas Pels
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:08 am

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:54 pm

In matters like this, it is always best to know about your fishes.

It won´t hellp much to know how to keep a loach from sri lanks if yours are from near Hongkong for instance.

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redshark1
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Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, Great Britain.

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by redshark1 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:28 am

I don't keep them but I have read some posts on here over the years.

There are different species of Weather Loaches.

Temperatures may vary over the year - a warmer temperature may coincide with the breeding season - it may be preferable to match these changes as it's probable that fish should not be at breeding temperatures all of the year.

It may be difficult to replicate the cooler conditions in a typical house.
6 x Clown Loaches all twenty-seven years of age on 01.01.2021, largest 11.5", 2f4m, aquarium 6' x 18" x 18" 400 ltr = 90 uk gal = 110 US gal.

MultipleTankSyndrome
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am
Location: Loachaholica

Re: Are weather loaches really unsuitable for tropical tanks?

Post by MultipleTankSyndrome » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:19 pm

Just asked the aquarium store. They get their weather loaches from commercial Florida farms, which probably means tropical to near-tropical temperatures year round for those loaches.
So, with any luck, they should do well enough in something close to 25 degrees when I get my second 473 liter set up and get them.

Redshark1, I think you may be right for the northern-middle populations of weather loaches. Even though the 25 degrees being year-round in parts of their range seems to be the case (for the reasons discussed above), your point that temperature changes could induce breeding is absolutely correct.
473 liter - black kuhli/clown loaches, pictus catfish, fighting fish
110 liter - neon/green neon tetras, planned dwarf loaches
473 liter (planned) - Burmese/weather/yoyo/zebra/striped kuhli loaches, red tail/roseline sharks, tiger barbs or silver dollars

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