compatibility with cichlids?

[MTS]

I was reading an article at the cichlid forum http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/compatibility.php which suggests that some African cichlids will do ok with Botia loaches--they even show a picture of a clown loach.

Since water requirements are different, I'm wondering if anyone has African cichlids with their botia and which types are doing ok together? Also, what pH works ok for this combination?

[tglassburner]

http://www.loaches.com/articles/why-loa ... i-cichlids

[MTS]

If not Africans, how about South Americans? The water requirements seem more similar.

[Mark in Vancouver]

Usually we suggest that loaches should not be kept with cichlids. Even when the tank parameters are similar, they are not the same. If you think about it in a broader way, when you keep cichlids you have to give them the right conditions for them to thrive. We think the same way about loaches - that is, their needs should be provided for and that's what dictates which other fish you put in with them. Both cichlids and loaches should be considered the primary fish for your tank, and never as secondary.

More and more aquarists are thinking about tanks in terms of region - mixing fish that are found together in the wild, rather than mixing fish just because you like species A (found in southeast Asia) and species B (found in Africa or South America).

Keep them separate, and cater to the needs of each, and you'll have better results.

[joitoy]

Wow, thanks for the posting of that article. I've been gradually phasing out my warmer temp fish so I can lower my tank to colder levels for my loaches.

You'll really be a lot happier (and so will your fish) with the results if you cater to the needs of those and don't intermix from other areas.

[MTS]

At the risk of sounding dumb, what other fish come from the same habitat as the clown loach?

There are so many interesting fishes, it is hard to keep enough tanks. If there are some fish from different areas that can be combined it increases the ability to experience different fishes from around the world. Perhaps not natural but should we expect a home aquarium to mimic nature? As it is, many keep fish that will survive their city or well water even if it is very different from the fish's natural habitat.

I know someone that keeps Africans in pH7 water and claims they are healthier and spawn better than at higher pH. Just because fish come from a certain environment doesn't always mean they do better there. This is the case of many of the invasive species that find better conditions in a non-native environment.

I feel, if someone has experiences of fish from different environments that find harmony together--they should let us know. We are limited in the environments we are able to substain in our home aquariums.

[Emma Turner]

I know someone that keeps Africans in pH7 water and claims they are healthier and spawn better than at higher pH. Just because fish come from a certain environment doesn't always mean they do better there.

I'll quote the final paragraph from my article that Tom very kindly linked to, just to reiterate:

One last thought. As mentioned earlier, the fish concerned have evolved over thousands of years to adapt to certain set of conditions. A handful of generations of breeding is not going to change thousands of years of evolution. You may see/hear of fish temporarily surviving in 'compromised' conditions, but their long-term health is likely to suffer. Mankind should not force fish to adapt to what we want, and keeping fish in such an unsuitable environment does not make anyone a better fishkeeper for ‘getting away with it’. The aquariums that we keep them in should first and foremostly be tailored to the fishes needs, not ours.

Just because some people claim to 'get away with it' does not mean it's clever and does not make it right.

There are hundreds of suitable companions for clown loaches, but African cichlids are not one of these.

Emma

[MTS]

I'm not planning on combining my cichlids with my loaches. I keep them at very different conditions.

Right now my clowns are with a shoal of black neons which come from South America. They seem to do ok together. Do you think I'll have problems?

What fishes do best with clowns? A species specific tank would most likely be best but... being a fishoholic--I want many types of fish.

[Emma Turner]

That's good to hear.

Due to the fact that clown loaches grow very large and require a spacious aquarium, tankmates can also be a little larger than 'standard'.

I keep my group with a big shoal of Green Mascara Barbs (Puntius filamentosus) the males of which are truly stunning. They get quite large (my largest are currently at around 6" TL) and are very active. There are loads of beautiful barb species that would be suitable, but remember that many have very high oxygen requirements. The Longfin Barb (which was known up until recently as Puntius arulius) is also a real beauty.

Also suitable would be some of the larger Rasbora species. The Red Greater Scissortail (Rasbora caudimaculata), Yellow Tail Rasbora (Rasbora rasbora), Green Rasbora (Rasbora daniconius), Brilliant Rasbora (Rasbora einthovenii) are just a few examples. You could also consider some of the larger Rainbowfish species, as many people find the combination of these with clowns very successful.

Emma

[MTS]

It would be great if there was an article on tank companions for loaches. I'd look forward to reading it.

I noticed another posting from someone looking for colder water fish to be companions for dojo loaches. Is there someone in the know able to write an article?

[Emma Turner]

Well.....I wrote an article on Dojos for Tropical World magazine a couple of months ago. I am hoping that they'll give me permission to reproduce it here on LOL (like they kindly allowed me to do with my Intro to Botia article). In the article I was only able to briefly gloss over tankmates due to space restrictions, but if they give me permission to use it here, I will go intoa bit more detail on this area like I did in my original.

Given a bit of time (have loads on at the moment) I could easily expand on the tankmates part in the Intro to Botia article, or even write a separate one complete with lots of pics. There are lots I'd like to write about, but not enough time! We must also hassle Graeme into writing an article on setting up a Grrrr tank for the more aggressive loach species.

Emma

[shari2]

Hear that Graeme????

You can expect me to bump this periodically yanno.

A grrr tank is a whole nother ball of wax and since yours is so successful, you should share the wealth!

and PICS, we need more pics!

sorry for the hijack...

I have had angelfish with clowns with no problem, I think Emma has some too. They do need an area of the tank with a bit less flow, but they enjoy the same lower pH, warm temps, and will eat the same type of foods. They can also be fiesty and hold their own pretty well. Since they inhabit largely the higher levels/mid range of the tank, they don't have too much trouble with the clowns, until the bloodworms hit the tank, then it's a frenzy.

[Emma Turner]

Heheheh, look at what you've started now, MTS!!!

Graeme has lots of time to spare now he's a house husband.

And yes, our 8ft display tank at work successfully houses clown loaches with angelfish together. Different amounts of flow in different areas of the tank keeps them all happy.

Emma

[Graeme Robson]

I was wondering why my ears had become red!

I was thinking about the article just the other day. Okay i'll write up one this weekend. (without my marigold gloves)

Title suggestions?

[Emma Turner]

The Boisterous Loach Community?

Belligerant Botiines?

Graeme's Grrrr Guide?