New Kubs + KUB/ROST/HIST/ALMORH Debate!

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:27 pm

mikev wrote:An attempt of a Barbel/Face comparison:

(Sorry for the bad photo, it is hard to catch the 2nd guy with barbels fully extended,..I'm still trying after about 200 shots... He will only extend them if there is food around, and that means a stampede) All I wanted to show is that the barbels are larger in this other type.

Another try

Mike, are you sure that top one isn't B. rostrata?

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:36 pm

Mark,

How would I know? I had some suspicions for a while (this fish did have pretty ordinary juvenile Kub markings when I got it in spring of 2006). Now it does seem to me to be exactly halfway toward Rostrata in markings, but I never had Rostrata myself, so I cannot compare anything else. And did not Kottelat say that Rostrata is just a variant markings of Kubotai?

Behavior-wise, nothing special, but both Alpha and Beta pretty much hated it..

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:42 pm

I've always wondered if B. rostrata merits a separate species, but the markings on that one look to me like classic B. rostrata - the slightly variable double bands, and the general lack of "polka dots."

As we know so well here, rostrata, histrionica, almorhae, and kubotai can all be very hard to ID as immature fish, and they all share many characteristics.

And I'm not saying you're mistaken, just that going by the current taxa, that one looks a little like rostrata to me. I don't know if Martin or Emma want to weigh in on this...

Count yourself lucky - it's a very pretty fish.

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Also, with the kookiness coming out of Czech these days, it may be some kind of mutt. Hard to say.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:09 pm

Thank you

The fish started from a pretty ugly 1"..the only reason I have it at all is that I don't like leaving a single loach at a store, and the other two I wanted. It added more than an inch in fifteen months, so I guess in another year we'll know.

My opinion is worthless since I never saw a certified Rostrata...a word from Emma or Martin indeed would be helpful. But it is certainly not a Czech thing, I got it six months before Czech's came into the picture, and it is a Petland fish -- I've seen dozens of Kubs in Petlands and they are never funny-looking.

Incidentally, on similarities: I was thinking of getting Histrionica's on Saturday (this one never pops up around here), except that I could not believe they are:

. 100% a Juv Kub, I think, and this is btw exactly how the pseudo-Rostrata looked a year ago.

Whitey_MacLeod · Post by **Whitey_MacLeod** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:09 pm

Some lovely fish. Here's my three- they're probably about 2" or so now.

The way some of their smaller dots stretch into lines looks to me a little bit like a less extreme version of the patterning on mikev's oddball. It's not really possible for me to judge, as I've never seen a rostrata up close, but I can see a lot of kub in it.

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:36 pm

This is one of Emma's photos. Most of the fish have quite regular double-bar patterns, but as you can see, there is some deviation. I think the absence of polka dots is the clincher. She'll see this thread soon enough, I'm sure.

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:00 pm

Yeap, I see what you are saying. Let's wait for Emma on this....

Whitey, very nice. I think they did come from the same stream or around as my pseudo-Rostrata....they are very similar between themselves too.

Rubix · Post by **Rubix** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:01 pm

here's some close-ups of mine ill throw out there, my shark thinks its a kub

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:15 pm

Jamie,

My apologies for non-immediate reaction. These are great, and I'm particularly happy to see the "type3" one:

Interesting that just like mine its body narrows just after the dorsal and then widens again toward the tail, this is not the case with "type2". (Piggy4: my *feeling* this is the male attribute).

And one of your smaller ones again seems to be a pseudo-Rostrata: most of the horizontal line missing and I cannot see any small dots again.

If we watch them growing, eventually we should know what is the development stages and what are the true variations.

Rubix · Post by **Rubix** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:36 am

i'm curious to know the sexes of my kubotai... so your thinking those body attributes that our type3's possess are males? we need to figure a way to distinguish the type2's

mikev · Post by **mikev** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:05 am

Nope, this is piggy4's idea. But this bent-down-after-dorsal shape somehow makes me think male.

ASAIK, nobody ever saw a gravid Kub....

loachmom · Post by **loachmom** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:53 am

I've been following this thread with interest.

Now, I wonder what I have. This loach is different from the other four. He is about 2 1/2" long, maybe a little more.

Three of my other loaches are the same size as him, and they are very spotty, like this:

Sorry for poor photos.

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:32 pm

I'd call that first one B. rostrata, Loachmom.

loachmom · Post by **loachmom** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:41 pm

Thanks Mark.
I thought someone was going to say that.
Here's another photo we just took.

Now, I'm off to research b. rostrata.

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