Stiphodon genus of the Goby

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NancyD
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Post by NancyD » Wed May 27, 2009 1:55 pm

I had missed your last sets of pics odyssey, but as always, beautiful & interesting
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odyssey
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Post by odyssey » Fri May 29, 2009 12:08 pm

Hi hixku.
Thank you for information of the goldfish street.
Reacently,We can go to Hong Kong more cheaply than the Japanese domestic trip.:shock:
The price of the Hong Kong trip by the cheapest day is 120 dollars!

Hi plaalye , wasserscheu , NancyD.
plaalye wrote:I bought these as "stiphodon ornatus" along with some "red neon stiphodon" males. The males are possibly stiphodon artratus?
May be "artratus" > "atratus".:wink:
Stiphodon of 30 species are registered with FiseBase at present.
But,unfortunately it is only S.percnopterygionus that I can say a scientific name with confidence.:cry:

I think the Stiphodon of your picture to be female "Orange Fin" as well as wasserscheu.
In Japan, it seems to be spreading to call the kind "Orange Fin" stiphodon.
However, their fin is not orange all the time.
I display below some female pictures of "Orange Fin" that a fin is transparent.
Their fin gradually becomes the orange as familiar with a water tank.

I spoke it before, but, according to the DNA analysis of Dr. Mukai, this "Orange Fin" may confuse two species of the close relation.
I may do similar confusion in "Blue Moon" and "Rainbow Color".

The variability of their color of the body is very intense.
Therefore it is difficult to judge a close species from a delicate difference by observation only for appearances of the short time.
I am not limited to Stiphodon, but I think that the identification of the species of the creature should be finally made by DNA analysis.

If there is time, I will introduce genealogical tree of Stiphodon by his DNA analysis that Dr. Mukai showed.

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I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Fri May 29, 2009 3:00 pm

Much thanks as always odyssey! Your pics sure look like my fish. I have become a goby lover thanks to your posts!
Have you visited the yahoogobygroup? It's an international group and there are a few taxonomists specilaizing in gobies who occasionally offer help. It can take a while though.

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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Sun May 31, 2009 5:16 pm

Picture overload!! Lovely! 8)
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Andreas Werth
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Post by Andreas Werth » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi,
I could need some help with identification of this Stiphodon sp.
It was imported from Moluccan islands, Indonesia, tradename Stiphodon cf. birdsong. Actual size is about 6 cm, maybe they haven´t reached max. size yet. They are showing intensive territorial behaviour. Not every specimen shows the orange band as intensive as the one in the photos, but they haven´t settled in right now.

Real S. birdsong max. size is about 2,3 cm refering to fishbase. Looks like there is not much information available about this freshwater goby.

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I found a similar goby here:

http://www17.tok2.com/home2/tarogoby/ph ... _a_09.html

but unfortunately I can´t read the text / signature - is anyone able to translate?

Thanks for your help in advance...

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Post by plaalye » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:11 pm

I believe it's sicyopus jongklassi. AKA "lipstick goby". Although s. jongklassi is listed from Sri Lanka. These have been imported lately from Indonesia. There's not a lot of info about all these new gobies showing up? Looks like the same fish to me from the pics I've found searching the net. Maybe odyssey will have some info.
I just got three. Mine are also very territorial with each other. Don't seem to eat algae/aufwuchs like the sicyopterus and stiphodon. Their mouths are much different. Definitely predators. Mine just hang on the glass and wait for me to drop in food, and chase each other away.
Here's an old thread I dug up from petfrd.
http://www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20695

Andreas Werth
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Post by Andreas Werth » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:31 pm

Hi plaalye,
thank you very much. The fishes shown in the above link do indeed look like the ones I have photographed.
On the other hand, here we can see Sicyopus jonklaasi aka "Lipstick goby" which looks different to me:
http://www.slendemic.com/easl/fish/other%20fish.html (at the bottom of the page)
In this case the name fits even better...

In the meanwhile I also found a thread here... Graeme Robson shows a very similar - if not the same - goby as "Sunset goby":
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=30

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:47 pm

Hi Andreas how are you? I don't think your fish is S. jongklassi if it's from Indonesia. Maybe a Lentipes sp. as suggested in the link above?

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:23 pm

Here are some quick pics of mine. I just emailed the supplier to see where they came from. I also posted pics on yahoogobygroup. There are a few goby taxonomists that weigh in with their opinions on occasion. I also like to know what they really are????
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odyssey
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Post by odyssey » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:10 am

Hi Andreas and plaalye.
They are splendid photographs.

I think the fish is Sicyopus genus,too.
http://www17.tok2.com/home2/tarogoby/zu ... kaeru.html
http://www17.tok2.com/home2/tarogoby/zu ... _tope.html

However, the identification of the scientific name is difficult.
There are many fish classes which can change the color and the design of the body intensely in goby department.

Therefore, it is difficult to judge it to be another species only with the difference of the color and the design of several pieces pictures.
Furthermore, their distribution is wide and the border does not become clear, too.
Because they have a habit to fall down to the sea after incubation promptly.

In late years the rate of the DNA analysis falls steadily.
It will become clear in the near future.
http://gedimap.zool.kyoto-u.ac.jp/index.php
I am not used to English. Therefore,It is likely to sometimes misunderstand it.

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:43 am

Thanks for the reply odyssey. I just heard back from the supplier and mine also came from Indonesia.

Andreas Werth
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Post by Andreas Werth » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:12 am

Hi all,
thanks for your help and input, especially odyssey and plaalye!

So, all in all we can´t be sure, but most probably it is either Sicyopus or Lentipes (according to Ron Watson). So I´m sorry I hijacked this thread about Stiphodon with a non-Stiphodon species :(
Therefore I wouldn´t care if this part is moved to an extra topic (if possible).

@plaalye
I also posted pics on yahoogobygroup. There are a few goby taxonomists that weigh in with their opinions on occasion.
Don´t hesitate to post any news from there - would be great - thank you!

@Matt: Hey buddy, good to know you are around, I have to stop by SSF anytime soon :-)

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:09 am

I'll be sure to share any info that I get.
Here is a thread from another forum. Tony Gill ID'd them as s. jonklassi but I think he just had a quick look. I've reposted my pics and asked again for an opinion.
http://rainbow-fish.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=574

plaalye
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Post by plaalye » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:27 pm

Here is the only response so far from the goby group.

"Several Sicyopus are similar in appearance and coloration. The one photographed appears to be Sicyopus exallisquamulus Watson & Kottelat, 2006.

Enjoy gobies,

Ron"

I don't know Ron? I've searched for s. exallisqualmulus(say that 5 times fast :) ) with little success and no pics. Anyone heard of it??

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Post by Andreas Werth » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:53 pm

Hi plaalye,
thank you for letting us know.

>I don't know Ron?

The only Ron I can imagine knowing how to distinguish Sicyopus exallisquamulus from other similar gobies would be Ronald Watson, one of two ichthyologists who described this species in 2006 ;-)

So this guess may be as close as we can get, judging from photos only.

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