What do you think of adding/maintaining a minimal amount of salt in aquarium (1 tb/5 gal)? The assistant manager at my local pet store told me with authority that salt is important for all fish, including loaches, and he has this minimal amount in all of his tanks. I had read in reference to loaches however it is not good, due to them being scaleless.
I had added about 2 tablespoons to my 44 gal. tank, and it really spiked the tds, I believe, as I couldn't understand how the tds went up otherwise 200 ppm in less then 24 hrs. Then I added that salt amount to 46 gal. tank, and giant spike again occurred. It makes me wonder, if salt does cause such a drastic change in tds, why is salt often important in cures, and how is it fish can handle this level of change in tds? Or, is this a fatal experiment? It was just 2 tablespoons, for 45 gals...
salt
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Re: salt
Do not add salt (sodium chloride) to fresh water tanks.
The definition of Fresh Water is No Salt.
Salt is the way a TDS meter works. If there was just salt in the water (pure water like RO or rain) and you measured various amounts of salt you could calibrate your TDS meter.
Any and all other 'stuff' in the water is measured as if it was all salt.
Rain falls on soil and rocks, and dissolves some of the minerals in the rocks and soil. Most often the minerals are calcium carbonates and magnesium carbonates, but if you measure everything down to the parts per billion you will find pretty much every element in the water. At the levels we (and the fish) are interested in calcium and magnesium carbonates are pretty much all you need to worry about. People with planted tanks will be concerned with many other minerals, which, all put together are not even as much as either the calcium or magnesium.
In a rain forest the rain falls on leaves and other organic matter, low in minerals, and there is a lot more rain so whatever minerals there are are greatly diluted.
So... the fish that live in soft water, rain forest streams and rivers mostly are adapted to very low levels of all the minerals. Very soft water, very low TDS. GH under 3 degrees, KH under 3 degrees, TDS under 100 ppm. (and the TDS is measuring all the stuff, not just salt). The elements in salt (sodium and chlorine) are almost undetectable in soft water.
Water passes through the gills and enters the fish's blood stream. The fish does not want that much water diluting his blood, so his kidneys are very good at getting rid of it. Fresh water fish pee a lot of very dilute urine. There are very few minerals in the water, but what few there are, the fish can isolate from the water and retain. Their body is very good at that. Fresh water fish from very soft water may have problems retaining too many minerals when they are kept in somewhat harder water. Cardinal Tetras get calcium build up, for example.
In drier parts of the world there is less rain, so less plants, so the rain falls on the soil and rocks, and these minerals end up in the rivers and lakes. In lakes there is a lot of evaporation, which leaves minerals behind. The lake water becomes harder over time, and the fish adapt.
Fish from hard water are build a little differently. They do not need to get rid of so much water, and they do not need to be so good at retaining the minerals. The Rift Lakes of Africa are the best example, but also many Livebearers are built this way. For more details about this, look up Osmosis and Osmotic Regulation.
GH and KH of Lake Tanganyila, for example ranges from 11 to 19 German degrees of hardness, depending on where the sample was taken from.
There is a lot more sodium and potassium in the water, and high levels of magnesium carbonate, lower levels of calcium carbonate (but still very high compared to soft water!)
Next item: Fish health...
When a fish is adapted to a certain TDS their body functions well, they take in the water they need and their kidneys deal with getting rid of the excess. But when a fish is under stress, or ill, they are not functioning at their best, and the kidneys may not be quite so efficient at getting rid of the excess water. This is where raising the TDS can help the fish. So not raise it too much, just a little bit. It is not the actual level, but the CHANGE in TDS that does the trick. If you always kept some minerals (salt or other) in the tank, then the fish would get used to that level of minerals, and they would become most efficient working with that water chemistry, but when the fish are sick or stressed you would need to add more of something to raise the TDS, to make it a little easier on the fish while they are sick.
But fresh water fish have certain limits. If you always keep more salt in the water than they evolved to handle, then they become stressed and you want to add more, you might already be at the highest level they can handle. How can you add more of something when you already have too much in there?
Better to keep the fish in truly fresh water, no salt. Then, if they need a dash of salt it is not too much for them. When the problem is resolved do regular water changes without adding salt to dilute the salt in the tank gradually, and the fish will go back to their usual water.
Another fish issue that is treated with salt: Methemglobinemia.
This is a problem when the tank has nitrites, commonly when cycling.
If you have fish in the tank at this time, adding 1 teaspoon of salt per 20 gallons will reduce the amount of nitrite crossing the gills, and protect the fish.
When the proper bacteria have grown to a population level that keeps the nitrite undetectable in the tank, allow regular water changes to remove the salt.
Next item: Parasites, and treating other issues with salt.
Ich can be killed with salt. They are single celled, and a CHANGE in the TDS of the water kills them. If you keep salt in the water all the time, they get used to it, and do not die at the level that could have killed them if there was not normally salt in there.
Keep the tank free of salt. Then, if treatment is needed, you can add salt. Hopefully at a level the fish can still tolerate.
If you already had salt in there, you would have to add more than that, and perhaps dose more than the fish can tolerate.
Another reason that some people say to keep salt in the tank is that many elements (some are minerals, many are not) are referred to as salts when they are dissolved in water. They form charged particles, and have a few other properties. This does not mean the water has sodium chloride (table salt) in it. However, some people hear the word 'salt' and mentally they associate the word 'salt' with table salt, and do not stop to remember that 'salt' is a very different word to a chemist, analyzing lake water than to a cook seasoning a dish.
To set up a tank for most of the soft water fish from any continent, adjust the GH to optimum for the fish. Usually this will be in the single digits for most soft water fish, as that is the definition of soft water that works for aquarium keeping.
Then adjust the KH to be pretty close, within a degree or so.
In most cases this will result in water that is close enough to what they are used to in nature.
Some soft water with would appreciate some organic acids in the water. This is easily achieved by adding peat moss to the filter.
No salt. Table, or otherwise.
Fertilizer for aquatic plants is OK.
The definition of Fresh Water is No Salt.
Salt is the way a TDS meter works. If there was just salt in the water (pure water like RO or rain) and you measured various amounts of salt you could calibrate your TDS meter.
Any and all other 'stuff' in the water is measured as if it was all salt.
Rain falls on soil and rocks, and dissolves some of the minerals in the rocks and soil. Most often the minerals are calcium carbonates and magnesium carbonates, but if you measure everything down to the parts per billion you will find pretty much every element in the water. At the levels we (and the fish) are interested in calcium and magnesium carbonates are pretty much all you need to worry about. People with planted tanks will be concerned with many other minerals, which, all put together are not even as much as either the calcium or magnesium.
In a rain forest the rain falls on leaves and other organic matter, low in minerals, and there is a lot more rain so whatever minerals there are are greatly diluted.
So... the fish that live in soft water, rain forest streams and rivers mostly are adapted to very low levels of all the minerals. Very soft water, very low TDS. GH under 3 degrees, KH under 3 degrees, TDS under 100 ppm. (and the TDS is measuring all the stuff, not just salt). The elements in salt (sodium and chlorine) are almost undetectable in soft water.
Water passes through the gills and enters the fish's blood stream. The fish does not want that much water diluting his blood, so his kidneys are very good at getting rid of it. Fresh water fish pee a lot of very dilute urine. There are very few minerals in the water, but what few there are, the fish can isolate from the water and retain. Their body is very good at that. Fresh water fish from very soft water may have problems retaining too many minerals when they are kept in somewhat harder water. Cardinal Tetras get calcium build up, for example.
In drier parts of the world there is less rain, so less plants, so the rain falls on the soil and rocks, and these minerals end up in the rivers and lakes. In lakes there is a lot of evaporation, which leaves minerals behind. The lake water becomes harder over time, and the fish adapt.
Fish from hard water are build a little differently. They do not need to get rid of so much water, and they do not need to be so good at retaining the minerals. The Rift Lakes of Africa are the best example, but also many Livebearers are built this way. For more details about this, look up Osmosis and Osmotic Regulation.
GH and KH of Lake Tanganyila, for example ranges from 11 to 19 German degrees of hardness, depending on where the sample was taken from.
There is a lot more sodium and potassium in the water, and high levels of magnesium carbonate, lower levels of calcium carbonate (but still very high compared to soft water!)
Next item: Fish health...
When a fish is adapted to a certain TDS their body functions well, they take in the water they need and their kidneys deal with getting rid of the excess. But when a fish is under stress, or ill, they are not functioning at their best, and the kidneys may not be quite so efficient at getting rid of the excess water. This is where raising the TDS can help the fish. So not raise it too much, just a little bit. It is not the actual level, but the CHANGE in TDS that does the trick. If you always kept some minerals (salt or other) in the tank, then the fish would get used to that level of minerals, and they would become most efficient working with that water chemistry, but when the fish are sick or stressed you would need to add more of something to raise the TDS, to make it a little easier on the fish while they are sick.
But fresh water fish have certain limits. If you always keep more salt in the water than they evolved to handle, then they become stressed and you want to add more, you might already be at the highest level they can handle. How can you add more of something when you already have too much in there?
Better to keep the fish in truly fresh water, no salt. Then, if they need a dash of salt it is not too much for them. When the problem is resolved do regular water changes without adding salt to dilute the salt in the tank gradually, and the fish will go back to their usual water.
Another fish issue that is treated with salt: Methemglobinemia.
This is a problem when the tank has nitrites, commonly when cycling.
If you have fish in the tank at this time, adding 1 teaspoon of salt per 20 gallons will reduce the amount of nitrite crossing the gills, and protect the fish.
When the proper bacteria have grown to a population level that keeps the nitrite undetectable in the tank, allow regular water changes to remove the salt.
Next item: Parasites, and treating other issues with salt.
Ich can be killed with salt. They are single celled, and a CHANGE in the TDS of the water kills them. If you keep salt in the water all the time, they get used to it, and do not die at the level that could have killed them if there was not normally salt in there.
Keep the tank free of salt. Then, if treatment is needed, you can add salt. Hopefully at a level the fish can still tolerate.
If you already had salt in there, you would have to add more than that, and perhaps dose more than the fish can tolerate.
Another reason that some people say to keep salt in the tank is that many elements (some are minerals, many are not) are referred to as salts when they are dissolved in water. They form charged particles, and have a few other properties. This does not mean the water has sodium chloride (table salt) in it. However, some people hear the word 'salt' and mentally they associate the word 'salt' with table salt, and do not stop to remember that 'salt' is a very different word to a chemist, analyzing lake water than to a cook seasoning a dish.
To set up a tank for most of the soft water fish from any continent, adjust the GH to optimum for the fish. Usually this will be in the single digits for most soft water fish, as that is the definition of soft water that works for aquarium keeping.
Then adjust the KH to be pretty close, within a degree or so.
In most cases this will result in water that is close enough to what they are used to in nature.
Some soft water with would appreciate some organic acids in the water. This is easily achieved by adding peat moss to the filter.
No salt. Table, or otherwise.
Fertilizer for aquatic plants is OK.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: salt
I would first depend on extra water changes to keep the water clear of bacteria. This way there is less to keep re-infecting the injured fin.
Some bacteria seems to grow better with higher nitrate levels.
I would work really hard to keep the NO3 under 10 ppm, and keep removing all the fallen stuff (food, leaves, poop) off the floor of the tank, and deep vacuum the substrate as much as possible.
Keep the fish healthy with a good rotation of quality food. Avoid fish meal and grains. Look for whole fish and shellfish, and similar good ingredients. You can add vitamins to the fish food. One source is a garlic flavored fish vitamin supply that is sold in fish stores (I know this is available in the USA, I do not know about elsewhere). Another is the liquid vitamins sold for caged birds. Either way, add a drop or two to the fish food right before feeding.
Some bacteria seems to grow better with higher nitrate levels.
I would work really hard to keep the NO3 under 10 ppm, and keep removing all the fallen stuff (food, leaves, poop) off the floor of the tank, and deep vacuum the substrate as much as possible.
Keep the fish healthy with a good rotation of quality food. Avoid fish meal and grains. Look for whole fish and shellfish, and similar good ingredients. You can add vitamins to the fish food. One source is a garlic flavored fish vitamin supply that is sold in fish stores (I know this is available in the USA, I do not know about elsewhere). Another is the liquid vitamins sold for caged birds. Either way, add a drop or two to the fish food right before feeding.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: salt
I will do extra water changes, and look into vitamin food. I did recently get some Spectrum's "Thera + A" which has garlic in it. None of the fish seem that thrilled with it. I am hoping that by next week I will be able to tranfer the other fish to new tank being set up, then if needed treat the Dojo. I noticed her top fin has some fray as well. Otherwise, seems healthy with good appetite.
Re: salt
I noticed my other is developing a fray in his tail fin as well...I was hoping to get other fish into new tank so I could treat tank with dojos, but nitrate level still high/need 1 or more large water changes. Maybe those fish too have a bacterial infection, as a couple are hiding more then usual. What should I do, in addition to daily 10% water change, vacuuming substrate. I put on a new filter, cannister, which seems more effective as well.
Re: salt
If 10% water change is not getting the NO3 lower, then do larger water changes. To help with bacterial problems (any stress, really) you have to get the NO3 down.
I would try not to move fish that may have been exposed to disease, they may take the bacteria with them to the new tank, and the stress of the capture and adjustment to the new surroundings can allow the bacteria to get a foot (uh... fin-) hold on the fish.
Treat all the fish that have been exposed.
A new filter may help, if it improves the water movement. Do not forget that most of the nitrifying bacteria is in the filter media of the old filter. Wash it gently in water from the tank, and add it to the new filter to keep the biological filtration going.
Keep cleaning the media. The debris trapped by the filter can harbor some of the bad bacteria as well as the good. The beneficial bacteria clings really well, so gentle cleaning does not dislodge them, but hopefully getting rid of the debris will also get rid of whatever infectious bacteria that might be hanging around in between looking for a host.
I would try not to move fish that may have been exposed to disease, they may take the bacteria with them to the new tank, and the stress of the capture and adjustment to the new surroundings can allow the bacteria to get a foot (uh... fin-) hold on the fish.
Treat all the fish that have been exposed.
A new filter may help, if it improves the water movement. Do not forget that most of the nitrifying bacteria is in the filter media of the old filter. Wash it gently in water from the tank, and add it to the new filter to keep the biological filtration going.
Keep cleaning the media. The debris trapped by the filter can harbor some of the bad bacteria as well as the good. The beneficial bacteria clings really well, so gentle cleaning does not dislodge them, but hopefully getting rid of the debris will also get rid of whatever infectious bacteria that might be hanging around in between looking for a host.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Re: salt
I did move the other fish a week ago...they seem to be doing well, with no evidence of fin rot or other problem, fortunately. All fish did get one round of meds first before move. Now I am feeding the dojos medicated food...the one dojo that had just a pin size shred in tail has healed...the other, who has had this split tail fin and a notch on the top fin for probably 2 months now seems still the same, or minimally improved. Appetites are good
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