I moved my kuhli tank out on the counter about 6 inches three months ago and set up another tank at a right angle to it. Well the kuhlis just simply disappeared. Now that the juvenile fish in the other tank are big enough to move I did move them and put the kuhli tank back where it had been - a total of 6 inches. I removed the other tank. Within three hours the kuhlis had ventured out and are now wandering all around the tank in the daylight hours just like they were before I moved the tank 6 inches.
Guess they didn't like the neighbors.
Kuhlis can be weird
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Hmm, interesting.
Right now I have khulis in three tanks, and they behave differently in each.
In the 10g tank there are 3 khulis and 5 young rasboras.
For almost three months, khulis behaved like the dominant life form: no hiding, lots of swimming, resting on top of plants. The rasboras, otoh, were mostly hiding in a close shoal under the plants, and leaving the hiding place only for feeding.
About a month ago it started changing: I've seen rasboras daring to swim around once in a while (they did grew perhaps 1.5x times during this time).
As of about a week ago, the situation totally reversed and both species behave "normally" (khulis on the bottom, rasboras on top).
Right now I have khulis in three tanks, and they behave differently in each.
In the 10g tank there are 3 khulis and 5 young rasboras.
For almost three months, khulis behaved like the dominant life form: no hiding, lots of swimming, resting on top of plants. The rasboras, otoh, were mostly hiding in a close shoal under the plants, and leaving the hiding place only for feeding.
About a month ago it started changing: I've seen rasboras daring to swim around once in a while (they did grew perhaps 1.5x times during this time).
As of about a week ago, the situation totally reversed and both species behave "normally" (khulis on the bottom, rasboras on top).
I introduced a black kuhli from another tank in with this group and haven't had such a good laugh in a long time. After about an hour the new kuhli started to explore. Just about the same time a long time resident kuhli started his normal trip around the log. Well the two met as they came around different corners at the same time. You could almost see them going "what the heck"... instantly both of them turned around and took off as fast as they could back to where they started.
Needless to say, they are buddies now.
Mine were doing all the free swimming, draping over plants, etc until I moved the tank that 6 inches. Now that end of the tank is completely covered with java fern so they go under it now.
Needless to say, they are buddies now.
Mine were doing all the free swimming, draping over plants, etc until I moved the tank that 6 inches. Now that end of the tank is completely covered with java fern so they go under it now.
This 10g drives me crazy...first I was worried they were ill because of lots of swimming...then I was worried that they were ill because they stop swimming...one the khulis here also morphed, and this was quite scary to watch before I understood....this tank is next to this computer so I see it a bit too much for sanity.Wendie wrote: Mine were doing all the free swimming, draping over plants, etc until I moved the tank that 6 inches.
You are considerably ahead of me. I had to introduce BN's to stop the algae from killing everything (so right now both khulis and rasboras are hiding).Now that end of the tank is completely covered with java fern so they go under it now.
I have very little problems with algae in that tank. The java fern has taken over about half the tank and the dwarf swords are trying their best to shoot off enough tiny babies to overrun the other end of the tank. I also have an Indian Almond leaf in there which I need to change. It floats around on top of the water for a few days and then drifts to the bottom. It's really surprising as the tank is quite close to a window.
I can spend hours watching those guys. I would like to get some more regular kuhlis. I had such a time getting the three I currently have to make it. I kept losing batch after batch. I thought the black ones were all going to die until I put the IAL in the tank with them. Once I did that everything reversed itself and they were fine. All the slime was coming off them... it was a mess. I thought the last two were going to die also as the slime had started peeling and they were all red but it stopped and they are fine now. Now is that morphing? I know things happen, but just don't know the terms. I've been away from fish keeping all too long. All are getting FAT!!!
I can spend hours watching those guys. I would like to get some more regular kuhlis. I had such a time getting the three I currently have to make it. I kept losing batch after batch. I thought the black ones were all going to die until I put the IAL in the tank with them. Once I did that everything reversed itself and they were fine. All the slime was coming off them... it was a mess. I thought the last two were going to die also as the slime had started peeling and they were all red but it stopped and they are fine now. Now is that morphing? I know things happen, but just don't know the terms. I've been away from fish keeping all too long. All are getting FAT!!!
I have very little problems with algae in that tank. -- probably because you know better how to control it. I could not. But the problem is halfway solved already: the front glass is totally clean and I can see through the back glass in several places. Much of the algae is now on the ground, layed out in plecorations.
I can spend hours watching those guys. I would like to get some more regular kuhlis. I had such a time getting the three I currently have to make it. I kept losing batch after batch -- I know the story, unf., half of new khulis die within 5 days. Actually, I think I *may* know why too and one of the stores agreed to try the idea next time they get a big shipment. We'll know in a couple of months if this works.
I thought the last two were going to die also as the slime had started peeling and they were all red but it stopped and they are fine now. Now is that morphing?
No, this sounds like some nasty disease. By morphing I meant a radical change in the pattern on a khuli. I've seen this happening twice and while there was no slime coat loss, I suspected disease both times initially. One of the guys got treated for ich and fungus...not that it helped since he was not sick....the other I wrote off as a goner, he looked so bad... If interested, I can describe/show this better. And if you get more subadult khulis, record their patterns when you get them...you may see some surprises later.
I can spend hours watching those guys. I would like to get some more regular kuhlis. I had such a time getting the three I currently have to make it. I kept losing batch after batch -- I know the story, unf., half of new khulis die within 5 days. Actually, I think I *may* know why too and one of the stores agreed to try the idea next time they get a big shipment. We'll know in a couple of months if this works.
I thought the last two were going to die also as the slime had started peeling and they were all red but it stopped and they are fine now. Now is that morphing?
No, this sounds like some nasty disease. By morphing I meant a radical change in the pattern on a khuli. I've seen this happening twice and while there was no slime coat loss, I suspected disease both times initially. One of the guys got treated for ich and fungus...not that it helped since he was not sick....the other I wrote off as a goner, he looked so bad... If interested, I can describe/show this better. And if you get more subadult khulis, record their patterns when you get them...you may see some surprises later.
Yes, I would be interested to hear what you've come across. I have the three now but do want more. Two of mine are similar in looks and very close. Where one goes the other goes. The third one has a different pattern from the others and associates with the black kuhlis rather than the regular kuhlis which I thought was odd. Now one time when I was photographing the black kuhlis in the other tank I noticed that one of the black ones came up with the ringed markings underneath his black coloring. I don't have the photo anymore but I thought that was so weird. I'll try taking more photos when they are all out fighting over the food in the morning.
It's funny really but years ago I had several kuhlis... long before they had any problems associated with them and long before they were bred in the home aquarium. I wrote Dr Axelrod about them as I had a female with a green stomach. At that time he didn't even know what that meant but wanted to met me so I went into his office and got a grand tour of the entire place. What a beautiful six foot tank he had in his office. It was quite an experience and we decided that the female did have eggs in her. Unfortunately, the heater went nuts while I was away for a couple days and I lost the entire tank full of fish. I was sooooo upset. I loved those little guys. At that time I boiled regular rocks and put them in the tanks along with boiled sand from the beach!!! Boy times sure have changed.
It's funny really but years ago I had several kuhlis... long before they had any problems associated with them and long before they were bred in the home aquarium. I wrote Dr Axelrod about them as I had a female with a green stomach. At that time he didn't even know what that meant but wanted to met me so I went into his office and got a grand tour of the entire place. What a beautiful six foot tank he had in his office. It was quite an experience and we decided that the female did have eggs in her. Unfortunately, the heater went nuts while I was away for a couple days and I lost the entire tank full of fish. I was sooooo upset. I loved those little guys. At that time I boiled regular rocks and put them in the tanks along with boiled sand from the beach!!! Boy times sure have changed.
-
Graeme Robson
- Posts: 9096
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:34 am
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
OK, one of two cases (the other needs a photo to show)Yes, I would be interested to hear what you've come across.
This is the 10g mentioned above, two khulis here were rescued from the lfs which was going to totally dump their tank...the tank was full of ich and I guess it was cheaper for them to throw away the fish and clean the tank....and it was a 50g with quite a lot in it....neons, gouramis, small angels,.... So I ended up with six small rasboras and two khulis from the tank, since these were the two species I like...the rest went down the toilet. Added another khuli later, lost one rasbora (khulis kept them so terrorized that one decided to jump out through the filter hole during the night...)
The khulis were of the kind I'd not normally buy: no pattern irregularities at all, so I could not even distinguish the two. Obviously, I was watching them for ich signs and a couple of weeks later noticed what looked like an ich dot on one of the khulis: straight on top of the 2nd stripe. So I gave them another ich treatment round which only made the dot bigger... I suspected fungus (as the only other thing which looked remotedly like this), the cure failed again
, and the khuli developed a 2nd dot, this time on the top of the 3rd segment. Then he produced two more dots (tops of the 5th and 6th segments), and the dots became bigger and slowly changed from the white to the "khuli body" color. The last time I looked he had three dots on him (one never really developed and dissappeared).This seems to be the exact analogue of CL's developing "double stripes".
This probably "normally" happens at a slightly younger age so we don't see it;this khuli was about 2.5" but still growing. I probably will end up buying a few more pattern-less subadults just to see this happening again, did not see them around recently. I did, however, buy one very small khuli (2") with several dots already present and, funny enough, this one developed a green belly within two weeks....so I guess it actually is an adult, just unusually small.
----------------
APPEND Mar 3. The other case I was referring to is the "shape-shifter"; it now appears down the thread.
Last edited by mikev on Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
When the weather gets better I'll spring for the $70 train fare and come in to pick up some. It's a 4 hour trip for them but hopefully they can handle that. My local store said that she will put them on a permanent request list so perhaps she'll get some in the spring. The last mail order of kuhlis looked really great and I thought for sure that they would make it. After five days, they started going one by one.
The juvenile betta tank has plenty of aglae on both the glass and the gravel. That tank is in the middle of the room and gets only indirect light from the windows. The kuhli tank gets 4 hours of direct sunlight - except when the cat sits in front of it blocking some of the light. You won't see a single kuhli until the sun gets around that window and no longer hits the tank or the surrounding area with any strength. As soon as that happens they pop out.
The juvenile betta tank has plenty of aglae on both the glass and the gravel. That tank is in the middle of the room and gets only indirect light from the windows. The kuhli tank gets 4 hours of direct sunlight - except when the cat sits in front of it blocking some of the light. You won't see a single kuhli until the sun gets around that window and no longer hits the tank or the surrounding area with any strength. As soon as that happens they pop out.
-
VeryHungryGoldfish
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:45 pm
-
Mark in Vancouver
- Posts: 14252
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: British Columbia
Kuhlis live in leaf litter on the floors of slower streams. Sometimes they live in blackwater still pools with high acidity. Sometimes it's in faster streams, but still among the detritus at the bottom.
Like the other loaches, they don't seem to spawn in captivity. So all of those Kuhlis are wild-caught. What do they suffer from in the wild? How does their capture and transport affect their health? We have no data, but it seems that they must be imported in great numbers for a few to survive, or imported in small numbers and lots of bags, for more to survive.
Some fish shops are scared of them as bad imports because they recall the days when 100 fish would show up and 20 of them would be alive. Today, with good instructions, a fish shop can order them and import 30 for a higher price if they arrange it.
It is our insistance that leads to them arranging the imports correctly. Learn about loaches and figure out the needs before you import them. No one wants fifty Beaufortia, not even hillstream loach geeks, like myself. But Beaufortias seem to travel better than Kuhlis.... We have to train the fish staff.
Like the other loaches, they don't seem to spawn in captivity. So all of those Kuhlis are wild-caught. What do they suffer from in the wild? How does their capture and transport affect their health? We have no data, but it seems that they must be imported in great numbers for a few to survive, or imported in small numbers and lots of bags, for more to survive.
Some fish shops are scared of them as bad imports because they recall the days when 100 fish would show up and 20 of them would be alive. Today, with good instructions, a fish shop can order them and import 30 for a higher price if they arrange it.
It is our insistance that leads to them arranging the imports correctly. Learn about loaches and figure out the needs before you import them. No one wants fifty Beaufortia, not even hillstream loach geeks, like myself. But Beaufortias seem to travel better than Kuhlis.... We have to train the fish staff.
Your vantage point determines what you can see.
Oh well, let me add my 2c...I probably should not 
In 2 weeks I plan to buy about 10 of them, what can I do to maximize their chances of survival? --- this question actually has an easy answer: you make sure that the loaches you buy spent one week at the store. This will guarantee almost 100% that they will do fine in your tank. Unfortunately, this is no help if you expect the store to run out of them in a week, as often happens here.
A few comments on Mark's post (which I'm in agreement with, but there are some nice openings):
I think this is an issue of economics. The problem is that Khulis are simply too cheap ($2-$3 here retail, probably 10c-25c quantity price), and therefore it is not cost effective to put any efforts into proper transportation. The best solution is actually an import tax (say, $1 per imported khuli, dead or alive....this will improve the numbers quickly). Training the fish staff is mostly useless, since the problem lies largely with the shippers. However, when a lfs here -- after my screaming -- called the Thai supplier and requested two large 50 khuli bags instead of one 100 khuli bag, the losses came down to about 20% from the previous 40%-100%. But 20% is still way too high, and there is no easy way to scream at a chain pet store which sells most of them and I really don't believe that this is only an issue of how many khulis per bag...there seems to be something else happening.
What do they suffer from in the wild?
Perhaps we can answer a simpler question first: what do they suffer from here? The picture looks a bit strange to me, I saw only two diseases:
* KUSS (KhUli Shipping Syndrome)
* Fungus (observed in some bad stores)
They even don't seem to carry parasites (!), or at least I've not met any yet (and I have many khulis here) and never heard of them. Did anyone else see any other problems?
They appear to be a remarkably hardy species, tolerant to most water conditions, except for the KUSS mystery.
And KUSS is actually quite a mystery: something that happens during transportation makes a number of them die within 5 days, as Wendie said. In my case, almost all khuli losses occurred within 3 days of purchase (one - 5 days), but 5 days is still valid since they spent 1-2 days in the store.
Whatever KUSS really is, I strongly doubt that putting sand in the tank will have even the smallest effect, KUSS simply works too fast...
In 2 weeks I plan to buy about 10 of them, what can I do to maximize their chances of survival? --- this question actually has an easy answer: you make sure that the loaches you buy spent one week at the store. This will guarantee almost 100% that they will do fine in your tank. Unfortunately, this is no help if you expect the store to run out of them in a week, as often happens here.
A few comments on Mark's post (which I'm in agreement with, but there are some nice openings):
I think this is an issue of economics. The problem is that Khulis are simply too cheap ($2-$3 here retail, probably 10c-25c quantity price), and therefore it is not cost effective to put any efforts into proper transportation. The best solution is actually an import tax (say, $1 per imported khuli, dead or alive....this will improve the numbers quickly). Training the fish staff is mostly useless, since the problem lies largely with the shippers. However, when a lfs here -- after my screaming -- called the Thai supplier and requested two large 50 khuli bags instead of one 100 khuli bag, the losses came down to about 20% from the previous 40%-100%. But 20% is still way too high, and there is no easy way to scream at a chain pet store which sells most of them and I really don't believe that this is only an issue of how many khulis per bag...there seems to be something else happening.
What do they suffer from in the wild?
Perhaps we can answer a simpler question first: what do they suffer from here? The picture looks a bit strange to me, I saw only two diseases:
* KUSS (KhUli Shipping Syndrome)
* Fungus (observed in some bad stores)
They even don't seem to carry parasites (!), or at least I've not met any yet (and I have many khulis here) and never heard of them. Did anyone else see any other problems?
They appear to be a remarkably hardy species, tolerant to most water conditions, except for the KUSS mystery.
And KUSS is actually quite a mystery: something that happens during transportation makes a number of them die within 5 days, as Wendie said. In my case, almost all khuli losses occurred within 3 days of purchase (one - 5 days), but 5 days is still valid since they spent 1-2 days in the store.
Whatever KUSS really is, I strongly doubt that putting sand in the tank will have even the smallest effect, KUSS simply works too fast...
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 141 guests