Loaches Online Forum

Thank gary......I finally see the light

I bought my smallest clowns from a shop in SF when they were around 1/2-3/4" and was told they were farm raised in the states; the shop owner wasn't too keen to let up much more information about them.

This photo was taken a few weeks after I got them; you can see them schooling with some medium sized pristella/gold pristella tetras and a small bleeding hert tetra. now that they are a bit larger, they school with some of the other loaches, but it took some time to break that habit.

a few weeks ago I was pulled aside in a good FS and was asked by the staff, whether I believed those Clown babies they have were farm raised, except beeing surprised about the small size, i could notcontribute much.

Now those babies are all over Munich stores, I was wondering. Why suddenly there are so many tiny ones.

They might be coming from the Czech Republic Wolfram.

Martin.

Strictly speaking F1 means "first filial generation", and is a term applied to the first generation offspring of two parental lines P. It's terminology used primarily in genetics and plant or animal breeding, usually to achieve or study some phenotypical (morphological traits) expression of genetic crosses.

$17.25?!?!?!

I bought most of my clowns for less than $4 apiece. Wow.

Guess the shop is waiting for them to grow up? and so wants to discourage people from buying the little ones?

I dont personally know if there is some reason for the speciality of bred in captivity or not ???

However my local petsmart sells small loaches from one inch in length to about two and a half inch lengths for $ 8.99 is this a better deal ?

I am new to the Loach World and have not a clue !! That is what i paid for mine and i thought compared to some of the other species of african cichlids they had it was a little bit pricey !

Sparky

SPARKYTHEWELDER wrote:is some reason for the speciality of bred in captivity or not ???

one thing I noticed about the tank of itty bitty farm raised loaches was that not a single one had skinny disease. There were all small, but had excellent color, healthy finnage, and especially, no signs of internal parasites whatsoever. It seems that when some of the fish mega-marts around here get a shipment of very young wild caught clowns, they all look horrible from the stress, and many of them have nearly concave bellies.

However, I know with other species of freshwater fish it can be a plus to get a wild specimin versus farm raised. Many of the wild caught varieties can have fancier or brigther coloration, and often are less inbred, and therefore less susceptible to disease.

it was good to see the label on the tank clearly said captive bred, and F1. its a shame some places here wont even label the hybrids they sell.

I work part time at a fish store in Regina Sask. and we have recently recieved some extremely small clowns from our Florida supplier. The suppliers company name is Buzzbee and generally speaking the fish are very poor quality. I suspect they use growth hormones as the fish they sell are often extremely large (not in this case) and unantural looking. I have no hard evidence to back this up but its my theory..... This partucular supplier is big into hybrids and deformed fish. They once sent us 'Heart Cichlids' which were in essence Flower Horns (another hybrid) with no tails. I am not sure to this day if this is a genetic mutation or if they physically cut the tails off these fish.
Suffice to say I usually steer customers away from any fish from this company due to these and other issues. Perhaps I am baised as I am not a fan of hybrids or the use of chemicals, but thats my 2 cents.

Matthew

P.S. However in the case of certain endangered species hormone/fertility treatments may be neccesary to save a species. But through sustainible harvest practices this should be avoidable.
P.P.S. I think I have said quit enough LOL thanks for listening!

Matthew - for the most part that supplier is simply a transhipper of Asian bred fish. (and yes, many are hormoned fish, especially the African cichids) I spoke to the owner last year about his "juiced" fish, and I've spoke to Mark (the head fish dept manager in Calgary) and it appears as long as there is a demand, and the fish are cheap enough, there will be a supply.

Quite frankly I have no idea why a company would use a middle man to supply fish, especially hormoned fish, when they could be dealing directly with any number of farms in Florida that breed high quality healthy fish.

RD. - I agree with your last statement completely. I have also spoken to Mark about this same issue and met with a brick wall as with most things Petland. We used to order fish a year or so ago directly from an asian supplier and the fish were excellant in quality and resonably priced. Now we use Buzzbee and Little Fish Company. Both are 'middlemen', Buzzbee is cheap but poor quality and LFC is better quaity but pricey.
Interesting to hear to that Buzzbee is a middleman as they seem to say many of there fish are Florida produced.

Matthew

Some of their fish are indeed Florida produced, they purchase from local farms, but from what I've seen a large whack of them are imported from Asia. (and hormoned to maximize color at an early age, which the owner freely admitted to me) I've seen hormoned fish from the other supplier as well.

However in the case of certain endangered species hormone/fertility treatments may be neccesary to save a species. But through sustainible harvest practices this should be avoidable.

Well said ........

Regarding those heart shaped fish you mentioned. I've read articles on this and seen pictures and yes, they do cut off the tails, it's atrocious and some are left with the bone sticking out.

Matthew wrote: They once sent us 'Heart Cichlids' which were in essence Flower Horns (another hybrid) with no tails. I am not sure to this day if this is a genetic mutation or if they physically cut the tails off these fish.

These fish are actually mutilated and are not bred deformed. The tail is cut away with scissors and the fish is placed in a tank with anti biotic and anti bacterial remedies added.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... p?news=957