Ich treatment killing my loaches!

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Amber
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Ich treatment killing my loaches!

Post by Amber » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:32 am

Ok, So I recently had some issues with my tank (High nitrates) which resulted in me loosing my pleco. I had 2 clown loaches, both 3 inches, to save so I reduced the nitrates by a drastic water change and deep cleaning. This brought my tank to a perfect balance according to the test strip. I waited a week, everybody was doing great. My levels were all perfect. I went to Petco and got a new baby pleco and a new bubble stone. 5 days later my clown loaches started to develop ich. I started the salt and heat treatment and watched everything closely for 3 days. The ich just looked like it was getting worse and my loaches looked absolutely miserable! I did a 10% water change and treated with less than half a dose of quick cure. (aprox. 1 drop per 2.5 gallons) This morning I woke up and one loach has lost control of his air bladder. He can't control his boyancy and is breathing extremely fast and keeps getting stuck in the silk plants. I've had this tank established for 3 years and the dying loach for longer than that. He's my baby and I don't know what else I can do for him. Any ideas or is it too late for Bobo!?

Amber
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addition to my last post

Post by Amber » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:55 am

When I noticed that my loach was in serious distress this morning, I did a %50 water change and put my carbon filter back in. I replaced the salt (half dose to complensate for the %50 percent water change) and am going to continue with the Heat and Salt routine. My other loach seems do be doing ok besides the ich. His colors are bright and he's active. Is this all I can do at this point without causeing further stress?

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bookpage
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Post by bookpage » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:50 pm

I think it would be good to read this post: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... 493059cff5
240 - Clowns(15), Polka-Dot(6), Sids(57), Zebra(12), Burmese(5), Red-fin(4), YoYo(5), Sumo(2), Skunk(4), Peckoltia sabaji(1), L144 Black Eye Bristlenose Pleco(3), Odessa Barb(9), Roseline Sharks(6)

YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/bookpage1

Amber
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Where do I go from here?

Post by Amber » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:13 pm

Ok. I've read that posting and know where I went wrong. I've been doing everything according do different advice that's posted online. The problem I'm having is contradicting information. What can I do to get back on track without adding further stress to my fish?

raving_wayne
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Post by raving_wayne » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:32 pm

first get the asalt out the tank to start with loaches do not tolerate salt. then treat in accordance to this post
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599

and what ever you do do not add more salt

regards and good luck
If Life is simple...... Why are there so many clever people about?!!!

Amber
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Ok

Post by Amber » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:36 pm

Thank you I will do that. I'll take it very slow this time and hopefully I can save them. Thank you for all your help! I'll keep you posted on their progress.

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Post by Holdstrong » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:29 pm

My recent experience with Ich did not line up well with the Sticky post here. In particular, it seemed to contradict the instructions given with the meds themselves. Especially this:
6. Be patient and resolved. Wait a minimum of two days before dosing the tank again. Some aquarists have had success waiting four days between treatments. Remember - you want to expose the maximum amount of theront cells to the medication for the longest possible time.
Products like Rid Ich+ tell you to dose daily and seem to imply that the strength of their meds are formulated with that in mind.

I waited days before doses at first, and believe this is part of what prolonged my problems. (skipping days seemed to drop the dosage in the tank below a level that would kill the parasite, giving it a window of opportunity to jump start its cycle again)

After trying rid ich+, ich cure, and an organic med for well over a month... two rounds of carefully measured and applied salt treatment was what finally helped me. You can read about my battles here: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18171

Ardillakilla
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Post by Ardillakilla » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:27 pm

If you have a good quarantine procedure, you will reduce the chances of an ich outbreak.

If you had a UV sterilizer, you could probably get away with not quarantining new fish.

If you have a UV sterilizer and quarantine new fish, you will likely never, ever have to deal with ich again.

Or you can live in fear of the next ich outbreak that wipes out half your tank's inhabitants. You engage in epic struggles against ich and your fish are often killed by the treatments rather than the disease itself.

The technology has been around for decades. A big red "Go away forever, ich, and never bother my fish again" button is sitting right there in front of you, just waiting for you to push it.

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Post by OneWay » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:37 pm

I got a UV sterilizer from Pet Smart, cheap and easy.. but the thing worked great for cleaning up ich. I use it now just to treat new fish in the quarantine and I will never be with out one again.

I just like having algae in my tank, and the sterilizer does not let it spread enough for my tastes :)

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:57 pm

BEWARE: You'll kill the fish if you remove the salt too quickly!!! If you do remove the salinity you'll have to do it over the coarse of a few weeks. You should at least wait until the fish are healthy before attempting to remove the salt.

Also it's false that loaches do not tolerate salt. They do acclimate to salt quite well, IF the salinity is raised and lowered very slowly (slow as in days and weeks). The salt treatment takes good measuring skills, some knowledge of water chemistry, attention to detail, and patience; which is why I usually don't recommend it.

Loaches should not be subjected to salt permanently. Salt treatments are short-term and should last for only 3 weeks to 3 months.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:17 pm

Quarantining and UV sterilizers alone won't eradicate ich. I wish I had time for a debate right now, but I have work to do.

Ardillakilla
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Post by Ardillakilla » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:23 pm

I guess it's just pure coincidence that people with UV don't have ich problems. Even on the reef forums, I read over and over again about how someone battled ich and it kept coming back then they got a UV sterilizer and that was the end of the story.

So if UV and quarantining doesn't eradicate ich, what does? Not quarantining and using chemicals? Reading this forum, it doesn't sound like that strategy works very well especially when half the time it's the chemicals that kill the fish.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:20 am

I've always agreed that all new fish need to be quarantined. I've discussed it many times here already.

I usually recommend prophylactic treatments for the most common parasites while new fish are in quarantine. This will eradicate ich and many other pathogens just as long as there isn't any cross contamination between tanks. Quarantine procedures are only good if the main tanks are parasite free also.

If you want to believe that UV sterilizers eradicate ich, then believe it. I really don't care to argue about it any further. I will say that my main tanks have had UV sterilizers for 5 years now. 4 years ago, ich infected my clowns loaches and I lost 31 of 32 of them. I always quarantined new fish for at least 3 weeks also. The problem was, I didn't do any prophylactic treatments. I only treated for ich if I saw white spots on the body. I didn't realize how long ich could stay hidden in the gills, without infecting the body.

You do make a great point about having a UV in quarantine. UV would work great on a small bare bottom q-tank. It will do alot of good and may prevent ich outbreaks, but there are no guarantee's that it will. With all the tough strains of ich going around, minimum quarantine times need to 2 months these days.

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Keith Wolcott
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Post by Keith Wolcott » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:03 am

I always quarantine and I have had UV for years, but I have still had a mild ich outbreak. My guess is that the UV does a lot of good, but it is still no guarantee.

Amber
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Too Late.....Lost them both

Post by Amber » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:47 pm

Neither Loach survived treatment. I had Bobo for 3.5 years and Crusty for 3.

I'm probably not going to get clown loaches again because no one can seem to agree on how to treat them if they get sick. Just about every piece of advise I recieved on this forum and other loach sites contradicted the other to where I was so confused and panicked that I made too many changes in a short period of time.

If any of you are reading this because you're in my situation. Trust your instincts and what your fish are telling you. When you decide on a treatment, stick with it and BE PATIENT! Otherwise your fish won't make it.



:cry:

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