Loaches Online Forum

nice. a few white clouds or zebra danios would look spectacular in that tank

true.... something to catch the eye aswell whilst looking for the loaches

matt

ps .... i think somewhere down the line i must have missed something...... ive 3 powerheads running now 1500 + 900+900 and am only getting bubbles therefore fast flow in the first 1/3 of the tank

Hi All. I plan to utilize Martin Thoene's river-tank manifold design in my 6 foot 125g loach aquarium that I'm currently setting up. I've got two questions. First, he mentions:

"Many power-heads feature a venturi effect aeration device built in. This normally operates passively by drawing in air via a tube with adjustable intake, that comes with the power-head from the manufacturer. To get the main water-flow down close to the bottom-living fish, I mount the pumps far lower than one does normally if using them on an under-gravel filter uplift.
This will prevent the passive suction operating. Therefore, I find that a positive air feed from a small diaphragm pump is required."

Could this not be achieved by installing a longer air tube to reach beyond the surface of the water? Maybe I don't quite understand what he meant as I've never used a powerhead inside the aquarium.

Second, can anyone link to an example of an adequate sponge online that would be used in the ends of the manifold? What is the ideal size?

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Matt -- Your tank looks great. Don't worry about there not being bubbles blowing everywhere throughout the tank. Bubbles will obviously rise, unless they are absolutely tiny micro bubbles - so the visible bubbles will disappear before the end of the tank. If you want to see what sort of 'flow' you have in the tank, get some neutrally bouyant stuff and drop it in and see what happens with it. 'Stuff' would be something like a broken piece of plant from in your tank, or maybe a boiled bit of zuchini or lettuce. As it won't sink immediately, and also won't really float, it'll get easily pushed around by the flow of the pumps. The water movement won't be completely uniform throughout the tank either, so of course it will slow down as it gets to the other end of the tank. Try it for a while and see whether you and your fish are happy with it.

Polarburn -- The venturi effect only works when the pump is closer to the surface. Even with a larger diameter pipe the water pressure at lower depths in the tank will over-power the negative pressure that the venturi creates that would normally pull the air down the tube. So to get the air down through that higher pressure zone you will need a standard airpump. You can of course try the power head at the lower position, but most of us have discovered that it wont work - hence the advice.
Sponge: Any filter type sponge is fine. Most larger towns have shops in them that sell foam and rubber, and almost every petstore/aquarium will sell pieces of foam. Just get a foam sponge that isn't too coarse but isn't too fine. It must not have any mould suppresant or chemicals in the foam (some foam sponges that are designed for outdoor use in outdoor furniture have chemicals in them to prevent growth of algae or mould). Then you can cut the sponge to an adequate size and using a steak knife you can pierce a slit through the middle of the sponge, get your pvc pipe and drill heaps of holes in it, and then insert it into the slot in the sponge so that the pipe stops about 2-3cm from the end. You can select the length and thickness of the sponge yourself.

mattyd - I appreciate the quick response. To be clear, I shouldn't really need the air tube installed to begin with since I'll have adequate oxygen-to-water exposure via my overflow, wet/dry filter area in the sump and of course the turbulence from the return outlet and powerheads themselves. Is this presumption correct?

I've having difficulty locating sponges online of adequate size that I can manually shape to use with the manifold. . Seems all of the round sponges (the best looking in my opinion for this application) are 'pre-bored' all the way through and for use with larger diameter tubes. I have doubts as to whether local aquarium/fish stores would carry any different. I'll keep on my search.

-polarburn

I do believe that your presumption is correct... you shouldn't have any issues with high oxygen levels with that wet-dry filter and the way the water falls between each layer.

You can cut your own sponges, and the round shape doesn't stay looking round for very long once some algae starts growing on it and the detritous levels build up. (although I suppose you will be using other filtration methods so the build up might be a lot less than what I experienced).

My effort with the river tank manifold didn't work too well. I had too much power in my powerheads and the tank was only 4ft long by 15inches across (and some of that width was taken up with the rubber background). I had water that was racing down the tank and turning back on itself and creating a rather powerful circular current. However I'll be upgrading my clown loach tank to a 8ft long tank in the next month or two, and I'll probably go with directional flow in that tank as it should be easier and look far more incredible.

Matt

I suppose I'll go with some rectangular sponges and cut them so they're not so boxy looking.

If you don't mind my asking, what was your gph output on each of your powerheads in your 4 foot aquarium? I'm looking at going with two Maxi Jet 600's (750gph ea) in my 6 foot aquarium.

-polarburn

Thats a good flow rate. about 12x turnover per hour is good for hillstreams and 5x for regular loaches i think. correct me if wrong

Hmm. Thanks for your input ClownLoachSharky. Just re-read this article: http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-t ... old-design, and realized that the flow rate I was aiming for is actually for the Hillstream Loaches. I'll have Clowns and will probably not need as much flow.

On top of that I just realized that I was looking at circulation ratings instead of the powerhead ratings on the Maxi-Jets and will now be looking at purchasing two of the Maxi-Jet 1200's as they'll give me a combined turnover of 5 times my aquarium volume per hour versus much less of a turnover rate on the 600's I was originally looking at. I'm just wondering if this is adequate for the clowns in a 6 foot long aquarium.

-polarburn

Another option over sponges,

Any pool supply shop will sell filter spargers. They are basically a piece of plastic with many numerous small slits/holes cut into it. The holes are small enough that any larger particles will not get in where they can damage powerhead impellers. And there are enough holes that fish aren't going to be stuck to the sparger.

It adds to the cost a little, but is lower maintenance. Just something I was thinking as you mentioned having a sump that would be able to house all your bio filtration.

Never though of baking sand before - is it safe? I know you aren't supposed to boil rocks because they can explode - but if baking is safe than that would be awesome!

UVvus - thanks, I'll check into them.

-polarburn

polarburn wrote:Hmm. Thanks for your input ClownLoachSharky. Just re-read this article: http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-t ... old-design, and realized that the flow rate I was aiming for is actually for the Hillstream Loaches. I'll have Clowns and will probably not need as much flow.

On top of that I just realized that I was looking at circulation ratings instead of the powerhead ratings on the Maxi-Jets and will now be looking at purchasing two of the Maxi-Jet 1200's as they'll give me a combined turnover of 5 times my aquarium volume per hour versus much less of a turnover rate on the 600's I was originally looking at. I'm just wondering if this is adequate for the clowns in a 6 foot long aquarium.

-polarburn

wait, according to martin thoene, his cl aquarium has 13.5 x turnover

EmilyMarie85 wrote:Never though of baking sand before - is it safe? I know you aren't supposed to boil rocks because they can explode - but if baking is safe than that would be awesome!

im pretty sure it depends on the rock type but i wouldnt risk it at all. I would just soak it in vinegar and pour hot water on afterwards to get vinegar off.

and for polaburn

Martin Thoenes 125 gallon 6ft
http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium