Loaches Online Forum

This is ridiculously hard to write.

The saga begins when I notice my royal pleco is ill. I remove him to a qtank and treat with levamisole. Shortly thereafter, he seems to be getting better.

However, the clown tank I took him out of seems to be having problems. I did a 30% or so water change and pruned back some of the plants. The cabomba was taking over. After the water change, things got worse, not better.

I noticed there was some redness in the caudal peduncle of the largest clown, but he seemed to be behaving normally, so I did small water changes (like 5 gallons) for a couple of days.

Suddenly there was this light tan colored fuzzy stuff developing all over the plants and wood. Have yet to find out what it is/was. Did a few more water changes (small) over the next couple days. Didn’t seem to help. In fact, it got worse.




THEN I notice the largest clown is breathing very rapidly. No other symptoms visible, but obviously distressed. I changed more water, and decided that since the royal had been in there, perhaps levamisole was called for since I had no idea whether the worms involved were direct or indirect host type. Added the levamisole after another water change. It has been 2 days since I added it by now.

You'd think by this time I'd have tested the water out of the tap, wouldn't you? But no. Not pinging on all cylinders here...

Here’s what it is today 2:28pm:

Nitrate (NO 3) 20ppm
Nitrite (NO 2) 0
Hardness 120ppm
Total Alkalinity 80ppm
pH 7.0

Sounds ok to me…but what about the tank water? Using the same test strip today 2:30pm. This is about 16 hours after I dosed with Maracyn 2 last night in desperation:

Nitrate (NO3) 25
Nitrite (NO2) .5-1.0 (eeeek!)
Hardness 120
Total Alkalinity 120 (?)
pH 6.5

Why the desperation, you ask? Because the 16cm clown is dead. ::
I found him very shortly afterwards when my son tells me last night, “Mom, the big clown is dead!” I think he’s been tricked by the old ‘playing dead’ game so I asked him. “No, he didn’t move when I poked him with a chopstick…” Aaaaahhh! NO POKING! But, no such luck. He was gone, and recently so.

Took him out of the tank and took some pics. The poor thing was covered with red ulcers. None of these were visible yesterday during the day. The only sign I had of something being wrong was the redness in the caudal which wasn't dramatic, and the rapid respiration. He was eating, and swimming around...




BHS? I think so, but I’m no expert and have no way to test microscopically. How long from the time I noticed the red in the caudal to death? Five days.
The rest of the clowns? The bigger they are the faster their respiration. But they are still alive and so is the bristlenose. The mean angel? He hasn’t even noticed there is anything wrong! Meanwhile, the tank is covered in floating tan fuzz. I’m going to break it down.

The way I see it I have 2 options:
1. Move all the fish in with the royal. If they all have the same stuff, might as well all be together. Can’t put them in with the other fish…
2. Put them in a container till the tank and filter are sterilized, load up some biomaterial from other tanks, and see what happens.

Where did the BHS come from? Last night after finding the clown dead, I investigated EVERYTHING. Somehow, the heater was set to 72F (I have kids…). The tank was cold to the touch. Probably part of the problem, but I doubt that’s the whole answer. Have been more than diligent with water changes and suspected the tap water, but it seems unlikely after testing today. The filter? I’m breaking it down today, but it was cleaned about a month ago in tank water. The bristlenose? He was qtanked, and all was ok for 3 months prior to this. Removing the Cabomba? Maybe I was overzealous. But should that cause a crash and fuzz that’s this dramatic?

Was it because I posted about BHS recently????? Maybe I should type it B*S like they type pl*co … to keep the whammy from killing their fish. D*mn! That’s all I can say. In fact, that’s what I was saying every other word for the several hours following his discovery before I dragged myself upstairs to sleep off my depression…

~sigh~ That’s what I get for trying to downsize, eh?

OH NO....I'm so sorry

I have to know...please excuse the ignorance...what is BHS???

Shari,

So sorry to hear this bad news.

This may seem like a stupid question, but have you tested the ammonia level in the tank?

Emma

Hi Shari. Sorry to read about your Clown

In regards to your question off thread about your plants, the stuff on the plants looks like thread algae or diatoms with a bunch of detritus trapped in. The presence of algae could indicate an excess of available ammonia. Algae, like plants, capitalize on ammonia, and when there are not enough plants to consume ammonia, algae thrives. Your positive nitrite test and pet loss would point towards this.

I agree with Emma Turner and suspect ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Did you dose the tank with meds or anything? Any chance you lost the biofilter?

You may have a mini cycle going on. If it were my tank I'd clean off as much of the algae as I could (twirling a (unused) toothbrush near it should make your life easier, or you could trim the cambomba and clean it in a bucket then replant), do a gravel vac if its been a while, then do a large water change. I would add more plants or biomedia from another tank to help bring down the nitrIte. I would do this with the mindset of regular water changes until nitrite and ammonia test at zero.

Hope this helps.

Thanks guys. I'll test for ammonia. What a stupid thing...I feel like a novice. Only worse, cause I'm not...

I'm in the midst of breaking apart the filter and cleaning it up. Very gunked up. Maybe removing that matt of cabomba was a BAD idea...meanwhile, I guess moving the clowns should be happening, like NOW.

Trimming the Cabomba is good and is a great form of nutrient export. Just keep in mind a big healthy forest of Cambomba can take up more nutrients faster than a small amount of Cambomba. In a setup like yours, think of the plants and trimming as supplemental to the biofilter.

A suggestion: a nice thing about Cabomba is its not picky about trimming. If its growing really fast just nip off the tops with a finger nail when a stem gets too tall. (Many people do this when they notice it while feeding.) This will also yield bushier, more attractive plants.

In case you are not aware, better to clean up the stuff in the tank then the stuff on the filter. Currently there is not enough bacteria to convert nitrite, so you want to keep that colony in the filter and let them multiply.

If the filter's mechanical media is very clogged, swirling it in a bucket of tank water is a good way to clean. If you do this, it's better to not vaccum.

Good luck with the fish. Hope it all works out well soon.

(edited for clarity.)

Can someone tell me what BHS is....please???

I have 11 Clowns and would hate to not know about a potential disease????

mamaschild wrote:Can someone tell me what BHS is....please???

I have 11 Clowns and would hate to not know about a potential disease????

Lots of things, according to Google, mostly British something or Some High School......not likely relevant, anyhow: this does not seem to be a disease, I've seen similar sores when clowns are placed into an uncycled tank. Even if a germ plays a role here, it is only because of the fish being weakened.

It is probably best to evacuate asap if another tank is available. If not, Prime does wonders in reducing nitrites and ammonia, at least for a while, extra O2 (lower the water level if you have a HOB filter) will help too. Salt (which usually helps with nitrites) is probably not a good idea how.

I guess one thing we learned is that your type of pleco is very sensitive to ammonia/nitrites...

good luck!

Ok, Mike.....then I guess I'm asking what is meant by this???

BHS? I think so, but I’m no expert and have no way to test microscopically.

mamaschild wrote:Ok, Mike.....then I guess I'm asking what is meant by this???

BHS? I think so, but I’m no expert and have no way to test microscopically.

Mamaschild. It is Bacterial Hemmorrhagic Septicimia. You can find a link here> http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2224&start=0

Ingore mikev. He's at times a wanna-be comedian.

Thanks Graeme

and Comedians are a good thing at times

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful fish. I wish you all the best of luck with curing the problem of the thread algae. I hope this is the only fatality.

mamaschild wrote:Can someone tell me what BHS is....please???

I have 11 Clowns and would hate to not know about a potential disease????

My first post, and its a depressing one
Before I found this forum, I ended up with the same problem, same fish species; http://www.oscarfish.com/round-two-for- ... ht=#549462
No others caught what it was, yet it took my favourite little beastie.
Sorry to hear about your clown, hope this is the only case you have of it.

basically, get everything out of the tank that doesn't need to be there. all the plants. whatever is growing there is using up all the oxygen in the water and may also be secreting toxins. you may not have bacterial septicemia. you could just have chemical poisoning.

also, add more air. air stones or current. plus, of course, get the temp up to par.

that's about it, you know. whatever residual negative effects you'll get through fish deaths will happen. the ones that are a bit stronger will survive.

mamaschild wrote:Ok, Mike.....then I guess I'm asking what is meant by this???

BHS? I think so, but I’m no expert and have no way to test microscopically.

What was meant is that in order to be sure of the diagnose you need to culture the bacteria or look at it under a microscope. Septecemia tends to produce streaks, not sores, so it is probably not it. It also should respond to Minocycline (not always) which already has been used, another reason to think it is not it. It well may be some germ that causes additional damage after the slime coat has been chemically damaged, but I doubt that a lab would help much. Blind use of antibiotics or other drugs is not a good idea until the chemical poisons have been fully eliminated.

In a clean Q-tank, Meth Blue (low dosage) may do some good.

You should not worry too much about your clowns getting this as long as the environment remains stable/healthy.