Loaches Online Forum

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum so I apologize in advance if I ask a question that may seem stupid as I am new to tropical fish and hence don't know much about it.

Just wanted to let you all know I have a pretty long question so I hope you don't mind it and it would be greatly appreciated for anyone that would read this and give their advice/opinions.

I have had 2 goldfish in my 60 Litre (16 Gallon) tank for a month and have recently decided to change my aquarium into a tropical one.

2 weeks ago, I went to buy a heater to add to my tank, which includes a hang on filter, an air pump for aeration, gravel, ornaments and a live plant (amazon sword).

Today, I went to the local aquarium to buy 3 small clown loaches (6 cm in length) and 1 bristle nosed catfish.

I followed all the recommended procedures and turned off the lights and floated the bag they were in on top of the water for 10 minutes before slowly letting them into the tank.

However, I have tried feeding them small sinking pellets (which the manager at the aquarium recommended) but they don't seem to be eating them. The golfish (5 cm in length) however are putting them in their mouths and spitting them back out in smaller pieces seconds later.

The food then sinks to the bottom with the gravel. I tried feeding them again with the same food but they are not eating it. Is this normal?

Also, of the 3 clowns, 1 of them sometimes separates itself from the other 2. It also constantly swims up and down the tank, looking like it wants to jump out of the tank. I have covered the tank with glass lids so this shouldn't occur.

Is there anything I can do in regards to making the clown loaches eat? Initially when I put them in the tank (about 12 hours ago), they all went hiding inside the ornament (a ship) but a few hours ago, they all came out (despite the light being on) and swam together all over the tank and liked to swim up and down the air bubble thing, so they do look healthy and happy.

Also, how can I tell if the clowns are suffering from ich (ick)?

Anything is that the water was clean and clear before I put the new clowns in today, but once they were in, the water started to look milky (not clear)...is there anything I should do? I am considering changing 25% or 50% of the water tomorrow as I know clown loaches need clean water to survive. I always add water conditioner drops to new water and did this when I put the clown loaches in.

What temperature is ideal for housing the clowns? Currently, the water is at 26 degrees celcius (79 F). Is this okay? I'm not sure if there is any problems with my heater - there seems to be something that looks like smoke in the water near the heater....this hasn't happened before and I'm worried if my heater is broken.

My tank now consists of 7 fish (with the average size ranging from 3-6cm), they are: 2 fancy goldfish, 1 bristlenosed catfish, 1 siamese fighting fish, 3 clown loaches.

Is this still classified a community tank (peaceful fish)? I am considering adding 3 more clown loachs to join the current ones, but will wait to see how it goes.

Thanks very much for reading (if you got this far!). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Clowns or other loaches "not eating" for a few days(or even weeks) at first is perfectly normal, if they are OK they will prefer eating when you are not around.

16G is way too small, but this is not your immediate problem. However, if you feel you cannot upgrade *quickly*, you should return them.

79F is fine for the clowns, but I feel very sorry for your goldfish.

I followed all the recommended procedures and turned off the lights and floated the bag they were in on top of the water for 10 minutes before slowly letting them into the tank.

Explain "Slowly" please. If you released them within 20 minutes, you probably hurt them pretty badly (nothing you can do to fix this now).

Also, how can I tell if the clowns are suffering from ich (ick)?

Watch for small dots especially on the fins and the tail.

Putting some preventive med before you see the symptomes is not a bad idea. See the Xirxes' thread, some of what I wrote there applies to you.

HTH.

Thanks for your reply.

Is 79F too warm for the goldfish? The lady from the aquarium said golfish can go with clown loaches.

How large should the tank be to house the current fish I have?

What I meant with "slowly" was that I emptied them from the bag steadily into to the tank (probably took about 10 seconds), but I waited 15 minutes in total before letting them in.

How have I hurt the fish, by putting them in within 20 minutes? How long must I wait in the future before putting the fish into the tank?

Thanks again for the advice, I will take it all on board.

ey wrote:Thanks for your reply.

Is 79F too warm for the goldfish? The lady from the aquarium said golfish can go with clown loaches.

She should be fired. Goldfish is not a tropical fish, it is way too warm for it, and warm water has less oxigen.

If you want to keep clowns, keep barbs instead of goldfish (it is pretty much the same thing, in a way).

How large should the tank be to house the current fish I have?

At the very least 30G (for the clowns), and 50G+ will be better.
(and more later)

In other words, if you want to keep all the fish you got, you should get at least a 30G tank, make it the tropical, move clowns and other tropical fish there, and restore your 16G to lower temp.

What I meant with "slowly" was that I emptied them from the bag steadily into to the tank (probably took about 10 seconds), but I waited 15 minutes in total before letting them in.

OK, whoever told you this should be fired...maybe shot too.

You need to keep them in the bag for 1-2 hours *slowly* adding tank water to the bag.

How have I hurt the fish, by putting them in within 20 minutes?

Nobody knows for sure. If the store water is similar to yours, you may be lucky.

You need to test both if you want to know how bad are the things.

Thanks again for the advice, I will take it all on board.

u r welcome

Thanks for the reply.

I will definitely consider investing in a larger tank soon and use the current tank for the goldfish, but because I have only bought the tank and everything for a month, I might wait a bit first to see how the loaches do and most importantly if they get any ich problems.

What are the consequencs of keeping clown loaches in a tank that is too small for them? Would they die because of this?

Also, my friend (his 240 Ltr tank is much bigger than mine) is planning to buy clown loaches and wanted to know if it is better to get a group of 8 clowns that are the same size (eg. 2") or to get four small clowns (2") and four slightly larger ones, 3.5-4 inches?

ey wrote:Thanks for the reply.

I will definitely consider investing in a larger tank soon and use the current tank for the goldfish, but because I have only bought the tank and everything for a month, I might wait a bit first to see how the loaches do and most importantly if they get any ich problems.

What are the consequencs of keeping clown loaches in a tank that is too small for them? Would they die because of this?

Eventually. I think the goldfish will die first.
You may be overstacked too, so keep an eye on the water params.

Your more immediate problem is this: it is a good idea to treat for ich preventively, but you should not do this because of the goldfish.

Get some anti-ich med handy today just in case (Ich Guard would be my choice).

Also, my friend (his 240 Ltr tank is much bigger than mine) is planning to buy clown loaches and wanted to know if it is better to get a group of 8 clowns that are the same size (eg. 2") or to get four small clowns (2") and four slightly larger ones, 3.5-4 inches?

Don't even consider getting so many at once until you got the procedures (acclimating, fighting ich) fully worked out. No more than 3 or 4, and read/ask more before getting any.

And, obviously, the answer also depends on what else is in his tank.

ey wrote:
I will definitely consider investing in a larger tank soon and use the current tank for the goldfish,

fwiw, 16G is too small for two goldfish on their own without adding any extra fish. Goldfish produce an enormous amount of waste, need a lot of space, and grow eventually to around a foot. They need at least 10 US gallons apiece...

Keeping cold water fish with tropicals is bad news. Neither will thrive in the other's preferred temps.

The lady who told you goldfish and clowns can be kept together was only trying to sell you fish. Don't take anything else she says as true. Do your own research.

A tank that's only been running for 1 month is not fully cycled yet. By adding the clowns to such a new tank you run the risk of them getting ammonia or nitrite poisoning (and the goldfish too). The 'milky' ness you see is likely a bacterial bloom caused by the beneficial bacteria responding to the increased input of waste. It will pass. In the meantime test your water daily for ammonia and nitrites. If you see ANY do a small water change. Get some ammo chips. Keep a CLOSE eye on your water with tests.

Whoever told you to simply float the bag and then dump it into your tank is no aquarist. NEVER add water from a fish store to your tank. God only knows what's in it. Test both your tank water and the bag water for pH, temp etc. Then try to slowly match the bag water to the tank BEFORE you add the fish by netting them out of the old water into your tank. I put new fish in a bucket with the store water, test, then SLOWLY add my tank water to the bucket to bring the fish gradually into acceptance of my tank parameters. I also don't put them directly into the main tank, I use a quarantine tank for all new fish, then when I know they're healthy add them to the main tank. With only the one tank, it is essentially your q-tank and whatever one fish gets, the rest will likely get too.

Clowns are notoriously prone to Ich. Any sudden changes in water can seem to cause them to bloom with spots. Pouring all that lfs water into your tank may well have brought ich into your tank, if you didn't have it already. Your clowns may well get it. Look for rapid breathing, and small, white, salt sized spots.

You are new at this, and asking for advice is wise. Just be aware that salespeople at fish shops are often as ignorant as you are and can cause you a world of aggravation. Asking on forums like this one will help. Getting on the net and educating yourself is the most important thing.

It would be best to find out about the fish you hope to keep before you go to the shop...

Here's a link to a really LONG thread on a variety of ways to cycle a tank from the angelfish forum I also post on. Angelfish also need extremely clean water to thrive. Parameters for breeding angels are somewhat different than clowns but I keep both clowns and Angels together happily.

http://www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.p ... eadid=5633

hth

Thanks very much for the responses, its greatly appreciated. I will read the suggested links to find out more about clown loaches and acquarium maintenance in general.

Cheers